Sketch the region of |x-y|+|x|-|y| <= 2

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Dethrone
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Sketch
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around sketching the region defined by the inequality $|x-y|+|x|-|y| \le 2$. Participants explore various approaches to solving the problem, including quadrant analysis and the application of the triangle inequality. The conversation includes attempts to clarify the implications of the inequality and how to represent the solution graphically.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests solving the inequality quadrant by quadrant.
  • Another participant proposes specific cases for Quadrant 1, analyzing subcases based on the relationship between $x$ and $y$.
  • Some participants reference the triangle inequality to derive conditions such as $|x - y| \leq 1$.
  • There are corrections and challenges to earlier claims regarding the manipulation of the inequality, with some participants expressing uncertainty about their calculations.
  • Multiple participants express the need for further elaboration on the implications of the triangle inequality in the context of the problem.
  • Some participants note that the solution may be a superset and that further quadrant analysis is necessary to find the complete solution.
  • There is a mention of point symmetry in the solution, suggesting that if a point $(x,y)$ is in the solution, then $(-x,-y)$ is also included.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to solve the inequality. There are competing views on the effectiveness of using the triangle inequality and quadrant analysis, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the complete characterization of the solution region.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about specific arithmetic steps and the implications of their findings. There is also a recognition that the triangle inequalities provide a subset of the solution rather than a definitive answer.

Dethrone
Messages
716
Reaction score
0
Sketch the region in the plane consisting of all points (x, y) such that $|x-y|+|x|-|y| \le 2$.

This looks like it involves the triangle inequality, but can anyone point me in the right direction? :D
 
Physics news on Phys.org
you got to solve it quadrant by quadrant
 
I think I got it!

Case 1: Quadrant 1

$x>0$, $y>0$

Subcase 1: $x>y$

$$x-y+x-y \le 2$$
$$x-2 \le y$$

Subcase 2: $y>x$
$$y-x+y+x \le 2$$
$$y \le 1$$

Continue with the other quadrants, and the answer follows :D

Edit: I just checked Wolfram Alpha...maybe I'm not (Crying)
 
Last edited:
Will I have to square both sides and expand? Whoops, I made an arithmetic mistake.
 
By triangle inequality,

$$|x - y| + |x| - |y| \leq 2|x-y| \leq 2$$

Thus I get $|x - y| \leq 1$.
 
ineedhelpnow said:
im looking at how the problem was done somewhere else. i don't think you're on the right track. your correct in terms of identifying the quadrants.
x-y+x-y>2
2x-2y>2
2(x-y)>2
x-y>1

Is it not $x-y+x-y \le 2$?

I got $x-1 \le y$
 
$x \ge y$

$\left| x-y \right| + \left| x \right| - \left| y \right| = 2(x-y) \le 2$

$x-y \le 1$ which is the same as $y \ge x-1$
 
mathbalarka said:
By triangle inequality,

$$|x - y| + |x| - |y| \leq 2|x-y| \leq 2$$

Thus I get $|x - y| \leq 1$.

Can you elaborate on this? (Wondering)
 
ineedhelpnow said:
$x \ge y$

$\left| x-y \right| + \left| x \right| - \left| y \right| = 2(x-y) \le 2$

$x-y \le 1$ which is the same as $y \ge x-1$

Doing the same when $y \ge x$

We have

$$-(x-y)+x+-y \le 2$$
$$ - x + y + x - y \le 2$$
$$ 0 \le 2$$

Am I done with this quadrant, or is there more work to be done?
 
  • #10
Rido12 said:
Can you elaborate on this? (Wondering)

Well, what to elaborate? The triangle inequality gives $|x - y| \geq |x| - |y|$, no?
 
  • #11
mathbalarka said:
By triangle inequality,

$$|x - y| + |x| - |y| \leq 2|x-y| \leq 2$$

Thus I get $|x - y| \leq 1$.

From the triangle inequality $\big||a|-|b|\big| \le \big|a-b\big|$ we can get:
$$|x - y| + |x| - |y| \leq 2|x-y|$$
and we have the original inequality:
$$|x - y| + |x| - |y| \leq 2$$

However, if we combine them like you did, we only get a subset of the solution.
 
  • #12
I am such an idiot. I meant

$$2 \geq |x - y| + |x| - |y| \geq 2(|x| - |y|)$$

Thus, $|x| - |y| \leq 1$.
 
  • #13
mathbalarka said:
I am such an idiot. I meant

$$2 \geq |x - y| + |x| - |y| \geq 2(|x| - |y|)$$

Thus, $|x| - |y| \leq 1$.

This is another application of the same triangle inequality.
Any point in the solution will satisfy that inequality.

However, that only means that it is a super-set of the solution.
Still not the solution itself.To properly find the solution, I believe we have to go through the quadrants one by one.
The triangle inequalities do not really help, because they do not give a conclusive solution.

We can skip 2 quadrants though, since the solution will be point-symmetric.
That is, $(x,y)$ is a point in the solution if and only if $(-x,-y)$ is in the solution.
 
  • #14
However, that only means that it is a super-set of the solution. Still not the solution itself.

I was aware of that. I am just stating what I intended to write in the first post.

I reckon there is no smart way to find the solutions :p
 
  • #15
Rido12 said:
Am I done with this quadrant, or is there more work to be done?

Yep.
You are done with the first quadrant. ;)
 
  • #16

Attachments

  • Capture.PNG
    Capture.PNG
    2 KB · Views: 107

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
828