Sketching graph of f(x) from graph of f'(x)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the relationship between the graph of a function f(x) and its derivative f'(x), particularly how to visualize f(x) from f'(x) when f'(x) exhibits certain behaviors, such as going through critical points and changing concavity without crossing the x-axis. The scope includes conceptual clarification and mathematical reasoning related to derivatives and concavity.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in visualizing f(x) from f'(x) when f'(x) has zeros and local extrema, particularly after a second zero where f'(x) does not cross the x-axis.
  • Another participant suggests that understanding the relationship between f(x), f'(x), and f''(x) can be aided by drawing graphs that satisfy the conditions of these derivatives, emphasizing the importance of concavity changes while the first derivative remains positive.
  • A participant realizes that their understanding of concavity was limited, initially believing it required a full U shape to be classified as concave up or down.
  • It is clarified that concavity does not require a full U shape; rather, it relates to how the function curves relative to the tangent line at a point, with changes in concavity affecting the position of the tangent line relative to the function.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the conceptual understanding of concavity and its implications for the graph of f(x), but there is no consensus on the visualization techniques or the best methods to grasp these concepts fully.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the potential for varying interpretations of concavity and the need for clearer definitions or visual aids to enhance understanding of the relationship between the functions and their derivatives.

CustardTheory
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Hi all,

I understand that in the graph of f'(x), zeros and local extrema are local extrema and points of inflection, respectively, for f(x). The basic concept of checking direction and rough changes in slope to find concavity also makes sense to me.
However, I'm having a bit of a mental block trying to visualize f(x) from f'(x) when f'(x) goes off inflecting without crossing the x axis.

http://imageshack.us/a/img202/5001/captureipi.png

For example, in the above graph I understand what's happening at the first critical point and when h'(x) crosses the x axis, but I don't logically understand what's going on after the second zero. I can easily go through like a robot to find concavity via the second derivative, but I'd like to actually understand the logic behind what's happening here.
 
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CustardTheory said:
]I can easily go through like a robot to find concavity via the second derivative, but I'd like to actually understand the logic behind what's happening here.

That essentially is the logic of what's happening here. Since the second derivative gives you concavity information, you should be able to grasp what's happening to f(x). Drawing graphs that satisfy the necessary f'(x) and f''(x) conditions should give you this intuition if you don't feel like you have it already. Just think about what happens when the concavity of the function changes while the first derivative remains positive. What should that look like?

If you want a more concretely physical way to imagine it, just think of the functions f(x), f'(x) and f''(x) representing position, velocity, and acceleration, respectively.
 
Ah ok. It finally clicked. I think my definition of concavity was just off.
I thought it needed to be a full U shape to be counted as concave up or concave down. Am I correct in saying that this doesn't need to be the case?
 
CustardTheory said:
Ah ok. It finally clicked. I think my definition of concavity was just off.
I thought it needed to be a full U shape to be counted as concave up or concave down. Am I correct in saying that this doesn't need to be the case?

Yes that is correct, one way to visualize it might be that positive or negative concavity at a point defines whether the function is "curving up" or "curving down," relative to the tangent line at that point. Whether the tangent line sits "below" or "on top" of the function, so to speak. At point where concavity changes (f''(x) = 0), the tangent line will be on top of the function to one side of x, and below on the other.

Quantitatively, of course, it's just a measure of the instantaneous rate of change of the slope of f(x).
 

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