Sketching graphs with extreme values with the Given Information

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around sketching a graph based on given information about its derivatives and limits. Participants explore concepts related to critical points, asymptotic behavior, and the implications of undefined derivatives at specific points. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and conceptual clarification regarding the behavior of functions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether undefined first and second derivatives at a point imply they are infinite.
  • Another participant suggests that undefined derivatives could indicate a discontinuity, such as a vertical asymptote or a removable discontinuity.
  • It is proposed that if the limit as x approaches infinity is infinite, the graph points upwards and lacks a horizontal asymptote.
  • Discussion includes the interpretation of a critical point at x=5, with some arguing it indicates a minimum due to the change in slope from negative to positive.
  • One participant challenges the accuracy of the graph sketch, indicating that the graph should reflect increasing behavior in certain intervals based on the first derivative.
  • Clarification is provided that the behavior of the graph as x approaches negative infinity is not the same as for positive infinity.
  • A later reply introduces the idea that undefined derivatives could also suggest the presence of kinks or cusps in the graph.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of undefined derivatives and the behavior of the graph at critical points. There is no consensus on the exact nature of the graph based on the provided information, and multiple interpretations remain present.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the graph's behavior may depend on specific definitions and interpretations of limits and derivatives, which are not fully resolved in the discussion.

ardentmed
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Hey guys,

I'm having trouble with this problem set I'm working on at the moment. I'd appreciate some help with this question:

(I'm only asking about question one. Please ignore question two)
08b1167bae0c33982682_23.jpg


I'm having trouble sketching this graph out. If f' and f'' are not defined at 2, does that mean that they are infinite? Also, is the limit as x approaches infinite is infinite, does that mean that it is pointing in the upwards direction and that there is no horizontal asymptote? Moreover, if f'(5)=0, I'm assuming that that means there is some sort of critical point present, in which case it should be a maximum according to the increasing and decreasing values surrounding x=0.

Am I on the right track? Can someone give me an estimation of what the graph should look like? I can upload a sketch of mine (which is probably partially incorrect), but a clean computer sketch would do wonders for me to visualize the problem.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Let's see, if f' and f'' are not defined at 2, they could be any sort of discontinuity, such as a removable discontinuity, but more commonly a vertical asymptote if it is a rational function.
$$
\lim_{{x}\to{\infty}} f(x) = \infty $$ implies that as x approaches infinity, your graph will go in the positive infinity direction. So yes, it will point upwards like a parabola, and it will not have a horizontal asymptote. It will only have one if it approaches a finite value as $$\lim_{{x}\to{\pm\infty}}$$.

The problem tells us that as you approach 5 from the negative side , the slope is negative and as you approach 5 from the positive side, the slope is positive. If the slope goes from negative to positive, it must be a minimum. In terms of increasing and decreasing, a negative slope implies decreasing, and a positive slope implies increasing. Therefore, going from decreasing to increasing is characteristics of a minimum. With that said, if you provide a picture of your sketch, I could pinpoint the errors, if there are any.
 
View attachment 2905

Does that look right?

Thanks.
Rido12 said:
Let's see, if f' and f'' are not defined at 2, they could be any sort of discontinuity, such as a removable discontinuity, but more commonly a vertical asymptote if it is a rational function.
$$
\lim_{{x}\to{\infty}} f(x) = \infty $$ implies that as x approaches infinity, your graph will go in the positive infinity direction. So yes, it will point upwards like a parabola, and it will not have a horizontal asymptote. It will only have one if it approaches a finite value as $$\lim_{{x}\to{\pm\infty}}$$.

The problem tells us that as you approach 5 from the negative side , the slope is negative and as you approach 5 from the positive side, the slope is positive. If the slope goes from negative to positive, it must be a minimum. In terms of increasing and decreasing, a negative slope implies decreasing, and a positive slope implies increasing. Therefore, going from decreasing to increasing is characteristics of a minimum. With that said, if you provide a picture of your sketch, I could pinpoint the errors, if there are any.
 

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By inspection, your limits to infinity are wrong. Your graph should point upwards to infinity as x goes to infinity. The first derivative is greater than 0 when x < 2, or x > 5, meaning that your graph should be increasing in said intervals, which I do not see reflected in your graph. Posting a picture of your graph was very helpful, as I could see where your mistakes were.
 
Rido12 said:
By inspection, your limits to infinity are wrong. Your graph should point upwards to infinity as x goes to infinity. The first derivative is greater than 0 when x < 2, or x > 5, meaning that your graph should be increasing in said intervals, which I do not see reflected in your graph. Posting a picture of your graph was very helpful, as I could see where your mistakes were.

Bear in mind that the webcam took the photo in a way that mirrored the x axis. Is it still incorrect?

Thanks again.

Edit: Oh, so it should be pointed upwards in both instances? Isn't x -> -infinity when x<2?
 
No, just in the instance when x goes to positive infinity. I will recheck your graph again, I did not know that it was reflected.

- - - Updated - - -

It looks right now. (Yes)
 
You figured it out, but I also should have added that $f'$ and $f''$ being not defined could also imply some sort of kink, corner, cusp, etc on the graph. These situations are not defined because the derivative is different as you approach from the left and right sides:

$$\lim_{{h}\to{0^+}}\frac{f(x+h)-f(x)}{h} \ne \lim_{{h}\to{0^-}}\frac{f(x+h)-f(x)}{h}$$
 

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