Slacker uprising - new Moore film

[vanesch]

There existed a strong under current of anti-semitism in germany even before the Nazis. The Nazis were populists and appealed to the antisemite and antisocialist undercurrents already present in their society. Freedom of speech is not necessary to protect popular opinion. Restriction of speech protects popular opinion.

I agree with you, and as I said, I regret these restrictions of free speech in several European countries - but I understand where they came from. As you say, I think it is an ineffective way to try to suppress populism based upon racial hate or anti-semitism (which is the goal of these laws), but even if one doesn't think that it is an effective means, one can understand where it comes from.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I agree with you, and as I said, I regret these restrictions of free speech in several European countries - but I understand where they came from. As you say, I think it is an ineffective way to try to suppress populism based upon racial hate or anti-semitism (which is the goal of these laws), but even if one doesn't think that it is an effective means, one can understand where it comes from.

I see where it comes from. Similarly here in the US there are places that have made 'symbolic bans' of the 'N' word. It seems to be more heavily censored than most other epithets. Technically an actual ban would be unconstitutional though so it remains as an odd point of contention.

 

[vanesch]

No, this is incorrect. Prior to Hitler grabbing power by political means, the Nazis and other far right political opponents were battling the communists and after the collapse of the Weimar republic there was some disorder in the Third Reich.

If you read "Mein Kampf" (published in 1925 and 1926), Hitler's anti-semitic views are very very clearly expressed. Ok, he *also* hates the communists which he thinks is driven by Jews, but it is clear from the beginning that he is convinced that all evil comes from the Jews. Mein Kampf was published well before the Nazis had any power in Germany.

BTW, if Stalin had read that book, he would have known that Hitler would attack him sooner or later. (maybe he did, in fact...)

 

[Andre]

Yes freedom is speech is a great thing. We just have to cope with speakers who have gift to paralyze the brain of the average intelligent person. it's called demagoguery. Most common form:

A:There is a dangerous enemy/danger threatening us.

B: But we know exactly what he is after/what the danger is.

C: I have studied the problem extensivily and I know that we can fight it, but it requires utmost dedication and devotion. Since if we don't, we (or the world) will perish.

D: I ask you; do you want to save ourselfs (the world)? (slow and loud)

E: Now, if you all listen to me and do exactly as I tell you, we will save ourself/the world and create a better world for our children.

F: If you are not for me you're against me. There are some greedy people around who don't care about the world, only about their personal greed. They are to blame for everything. Will you help me to destroy them?

etc, etc

 

[vanesch]

Yes freedom is speech is a great thing. We just have to cope with speakers who have gift to paralyze the brain of the average intelligent person. it's called demagoguery. Most common form:

A:There is a dangerous enemy/danger threatening us.

B: But we know exactly what he is after/what the danger is.

C: I have studied the problem extensivily and I know that we can fight it, but it requires utmost dedication and devotion. Since if we don't, we (or the world) will perish.

D: I ask you; do you want to save ourselfs (the world)? (slow and loud)

E: Now, if you all listen to me and do exactly as I tell you, we will save ourself/the world and create a better world for our children.

F: If you are not for me you're against me. There are some greedy people around who don't care about the world, only about their personal greed. They are to blame for everything. Will you help me to destroy them?

etc, etc

The power of words and its associated dangers are with us since at least the ancient Greeks (see the sophists !). I wonder whether laws can do anything against it. The best thing to do is education, I'd say.

 

[Integral]

So, Moore should be given carte blanche to speak anywhere he wants, but if someone is a "conservative" (by your definition) who wants a "balanced" program, they are NOT allowed to express their opinion of disagreement with the invitation and should be condemned for it? Hmm...I didn't know free speech was only allowed for liberal extremists with good publicists.

I really do not think that this is what anybody is saying. I have no idea how one would go about forcing universities to let someone speak. Unfortunately the drift I get from this thread is that you and others seem to think that he should not be ALLOWED to speak at universities. Surely this cannot be correct.

 

[Evo]

I really do not think that this is what anybody is saying. I have no idea how one would go about forcing universities to let someone speak. Unfortunately the drift I get from this thread is that you and others seem to think that he should not be ALLOWED to speak at universities. Surely this cannot be correct.

Moonbear is saying that the University shouldn't be condemned if they decide they don't want to invite him. That is what Michael Moore is doing, he is condemning the University for deciding not to invite him, that is what this thread is about, btw.