Slowing down the speed of light in a medium

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of light slowing down in a medium, exploring the interactions between photons and electrons within atomic structures. Participants address concepts related to electron energy levels, absorption and emission of photons, and the nature of atomic shells versus electron clouds. The scope includes theoretical explanations and conceptual clarifications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the slowing of light in a medium is due to the absorption and re-emission of photons by electrons, while others clarify that this is a simplified view and that light can slow down without absorption.
  • One participant explains that electrons can only transition to higher energy levels if there are empty spots in the atomic shells, which are defined by specific energy states.
  • Another participant mentions that the concept of electron shells arises from the wave nature of electrons, which can only adopt certain shapes in specific situations.
  • There is a discussion about how electrons lose energy, either by emitting photons or through interactions with other particles, and how this affects their energy levels.
  • Some participants express confusion regarding the nature of electron shells versus the idea of electrons existing in a cloud around the nucleus, questioning the necessity of shells.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms behind the slowing of light in a medium, with some supporting the absorption and re-emission model and others advocating for a more complex interaction involving electromagnetic fields. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the nature of electron transitions and atomic structure.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding, such as the dependence on definitions of energy levels and the complexity of interactions that lead to light slowing down. There is also mention of the need for further resources to clarify concepts related to electron wavefunctions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals studying quantum mechanics, atomic physics, or those seeking to understand the interactions between light and matter at a fundamental level.

Mukilab
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Hi,

Before I phrase my question, I'll just go through what I know so no unnecessary comments happen.

I've read that the speed of light slows down in a medium because when a photon hits an electron the electron absorbs the energy of the photon and re-emits another photon.

I also know that when an electron absorbs the energy of the photon it moves up a shell/energy band around the nucleus (I mean shell as in the electron setup 2,8,8 etc)

Furthermore I have read that the electron then moves down a shell, back to it's original shell.

My questions are the following:
1)When an electron moves down a shell - is this when it re-emits a photon?
2) How is it possible that an electron can move up a shell? I thought that the shells could only contain a specific number of electrons, hence the shells.
3) Why are there shells anyway? I read somewhere else that the electrons are in a cloud around the atom, with no specific location and therefore why should they be in shells?
4) If the electron has just gained the energy, does it move down again because it is unstable and cannot maintain this new energy? If so, why don't other electrons follow?
 
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You are confusing several different phenomena. The first effect (absorption), is where an electron in an atomic shell can only transition to certain energies, and can therefore only absorb certain frequencies of light. An electron that absorbs a photon transitions up in energy, but then typically transitions back down and looses its energy by knocking into other electrons. Thus light that is absorbed is usually lost to waste hear (unless you fine tune the system to encourage re-emission of a photon, such as in a laser). If you shine white light through a material and plot the spectrum that comes out the other sides, you generate an absorption spectrum. The dark lines are the frequencies of light that were absorbed and did not come out the other side, and they correspond to specific atomic electron transitions.

Now there is a different effect (refraction) where the light is slowed down but is not absorbed. Yes, you can think of the light as being absorbed and re-emitted a moment later by a group of electrons so that the average light speed is slower. But this picture is misleading. This picture is not saying that individual photons are absorbed by individual electrons as the reason the light is slower. If that where so, only light at the resonant frequencies would slow down, but in reality, all frequencies slow down. If this picture is to be used at all to explain refraction, it should be used more as a classical picture where light is a wave that is absorbed by a large number of atoms in bulk and then re-emitted. The best picture of all though is that in refraction, the light never gets absorbed at all. Instead, it interacts with the electromagnetic field of the material so that it slows down. Think of it as like trying to swim through honey. You interact with the honey and you slow down. Except that light does not experience friction or viscosity, it experiences electromagnetic fields.

Now to your questions:

1) An electron can move down a shell by emitting a photon, but it can also do so by knocking into other electrons or atoms and loosing its energy to heat.

2) An electron can only move up into a shell with an empty spot. That is why mostly only the outer electrons are involved in absorption of visible light.

3) They are in shells, because the electron is a wave that can only take on certain shapes for certain situations.

4) For an electron to move down to a lower energy atomic shell, that shell must have an empty spot. Once it moves down, the shell is filled, so that other electrons cannot follow it. Electrons transition when they are knocked by something else: another photon, another electron. Even "spontaneous" transitions are actually the electron getting knocked by a particle that fluctuates into existence from the vacuum. All of these processes are very predictable for a large group of electrons, so that we can calculate the average amount of time before an electron transitions down (it's lifetime).
 
Fundamentals of optics (Jenkins and White) explains the "slowing down" as follows (and I like it):

When an EM wave passes over a small elastically bound charged particle, the particle will be set in motion by the electric field E. [..]
The phase of the forced vibration will differ from that of the incident wave
[..].
The individual molecules scatter a certain part of the light falling on them, and the resulting scattered waves interfere with the primary wave, bringing about a change of phase which is equivalent to an alteration of the wave velocity.
 
Thank you for your replies, especially chrisbaird.

Please could you explain the part when you said that electrons can only take specific shapes for specific situations or provide me with a link to some resources?

Thanks again
 
Mukilab said:
Thank you for your replies, especially chrisbaird.

Please could you explain the part when you said that electrons can only take specific shapes for specific situations or provide me with a link to some resources?

Thanks again

Any introductory book, article, or website on quantum theory will get into electron wavefunction shapes. For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_orbital" .
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mukilab said:
Hi,

Before I phrase my question, I'll just go through what I know so no unnecessary comments happen.

I've read that the speed of light slows down in a medium because when a photon hits an electron the electron absorbs the energy of the photon and re-emits another photon.

I also know that when an electron absorbs the energy of the photon it moves up a shell/energy band around the nucleus (I mean shell as in the electron setup 2,8,8 etc)

Furthermore I have read that the electron then moves down a shell, back to it's original shell.

My questions are the following:
1)When an electron moves down a shell - is this when it re-emits a photon?
2) How is it possible that an electron can move up a shell? I thought that the shells could only contain a specific number of electrons, hence the shells.
3) Why are there shells anyway? I read somewhere else that the electrons are in a cloud around the atom, with no specific location and therefore why should they be in shells?
4) If the electron has just gained the energy, does it move down again because it is unstable and cannot maintain this new energy? If so, why don't other electrons follow?

Please start by reading the FAQ sub-forum in the General Physics forum.

Zz.
 

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