Smooth Manifold Chart Lemma

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Lemma 1.35 (Smooth Manifold Chart Lemma) from J. Lee's "Introduction to Smooth Manifolds," specifically focusing on the implications of the lemma's conditions, particularly the Hausdorff property and the definitions of topology on the manifold.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the proof's claim that the Hausdorff property follows from condition (v), noting that (v) allows for points to be in the same neighborhood, which could contradict the Hausdorff condition.
  • Another participant points out that their edition of the text has a different numbering for the lemma and emphasizes that the collection \{U_\alpha\} does not constitute the topology on M, which is instead defined by a basis involving the maps \varphi_\alpha.
  • It is suggested that if two distinct points p and q do not share a neighborhood, condition (v) guarantees the existence of disjoint neighborhoods, supporting the Hausdorff property.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the necessity of the lemma's phrasing in (v), proposing that it may be an inadequate description of the Hausdorff condition, suggesting it should only imply T_1.
  • Another participant asserts that if two points are in the same chart U_\alpha, they must be separable due to the bijective nature of the chart mapping to an open set in \mathbb{R}^n.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of condition (v) and its implications for the Hausdorff property. There is no consensus on whether the lemma's conditions adequately ensure that the manifold is Hausdorff.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the need to prove that each U_\alpha is open in the topology defined on M, indicating that there may be unresolved steps in establishing the topology's properties.

cianfa72
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About the proof of Lemma 1.35 - Smooth Manifold Chart Lemma in J. Lee book "Introduction to Smooth Manifolds"
I've a doubt regarding Lemma 1.35 (Smooth Manifold Chart Lemma) from J. Lee "Introduction to Smooth Manifolds"

Lemma 1.35 (Smooth Manifold Chart Lemma)

Let ##M## be a set, and suppose we are given a collection ##\{U_{\alpha} \}## of subsets of ##M## together with maps ##\varphi_{\alpha}: U_{\alpha} \to \mathbb R^n## such that the following properties are satisfied:
(i) For each ##\alpha, \varphi_{\alpha}## is a bijection between ##U_{\alpha}## and an open subset ##\varphi_{\alpha}(U_{\alpha}) \subseteq \mathbb R^n##.
(ii) For each ##\alpha## and ##\beta##, the sets ##\varphi_{\alpha}(U_{\alpha} \cap U_{\beta})## and are open in ##\mathbb R^n##.
(iii) Whenever ##U_{\alpha} \cap U_{\beta} \neq 0##, the map ##\varphi_{\beta} \circ \varphi_{\alpha}^{-1}: \varphi_{\alpha}(U_{\alpha} \cap U_{\beta}) \to \varphi_{\beta}(U_{\alpha} \cap U_{\beta}) ## is smoot.
(iv) Countably many of the sets ##U_{\alpha}## cover ##M##.
(v) Whenever ##p,q## are distinct points in ##M##, either there exists some ##U_{\alpha}## containing both ##p## and ##q## or there exist disjoint sets ##U_{\alpha},U_{\beta}## with ##p \in U_{\alpha}## and ##q \in U_{\beta}##.

Then ##M## has a unique smooth manifold structure such that each ##(U_{\alpha}, \varphi_{\alpha})## is a smooth chart.

The proof claims that Hausdorff property follows from v). However v) includes the case where both ##p## and ##q## are included in the same ##U_{\alpha}##, i.e. their neighborhoods are not disjoint though.
 
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My edition of Lee's Introduction to Smooth Manifolds (Springer, 2003) does not contain a Lemma 1.35; the lemma you cite appears as 1.23 (Smooth Manifold Construction Lemma).

\{U_\alpha\} is neither the topology on M nor a basis for it. The topology on M is defined by the basis \bigcup_{\alpha}\{ \phi_\alpha^{-1}(V) : V\mbox{ open in $\mathbb{R}^n$}\}. Note that this requires us to prove that each U_\alpha is open in this topology.

Let p \in M and q \in M be distinct. If there does not exist \alpha such that \{p, q\}\subset U_\alpha then by (v) there exist disjoint open U_\alpha \ni p and U_\beta \ni q and we are done.
Otherwise, let (U, \phi) be the chart whose domain contains both p and q. If \phi(p) = \phi(q) then p = q by bijectivity of \phi, and if \phi(p) \neq \phi(q) then (by Hausdorffness of \mathbb{R}^n) there exist disjoint open V_p \subset \phi(U) and V_q \subset \phi(U) such that \phi(p) \in V_p and \phi(q) \in V_q. The preimages \phi^{-1}(V_p) \ni p and \phi{-1}(V_q) \ni q are then open and disjoint by bijectivity of \phi.

Note that if we did not have (v) then if there was no U_\alpha containing both p and q, we would not be able to conclude that p and q have disjoint open neighbourhoods.
 
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pasmith said:
the lemma you cite appears as 1.23 (Smooth Manifold Construction Lemma).

\{U_\alpha\} is neither the topology on M nor a basis for it. The topology on M is defined by the basis \bigcup_{\alpha}\{ \phi_\alpha^{-1}(V) : V\mbox{ open in $\mathbb{R}^n$}\}. Note that this requires us to prove that each U_\alpha is open in this topology.
Yes, from (i) ##\varphi_{\alpha}(U_{\alpha})## is open in ##\mathbb R^n##. Since ##\varphi## is bijective ##U_{\alpha} = \varphi_{\alpha}^{-1} \circ \varphi_{\alpha}(U_{\alpha})## hence it is open in the given topology by its definition.
 
I suspect that (v) is a failed attempt to describe Hausdorff, namely that M is T_1 and T_0. (v) is phrased here as T_0 or T_1 whereas it should be only T_1 (implying T_0).
 
Isn't all this obvious! If two points belong to the same ##U_\alpha##, since it is bijective to an open set of some ##\mathbb R^n## and the topology comes from that, they are separable!
 
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