Solid State Palladium: 27 Atoms in a Unit Cell?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the structure of solid-state palladium, specifically addressing the claim in a computational physics paper that a supercell of palladium contains 27 atoms. Participants explore the implications of this in relation to the face-centered cubic (fcc) structure, which is typically understood to have 4 atoms per conventional unit cell.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how a supercell can contain 27 atoms when the fcc structure is said to have 4 atoms per unit cell.
  • Another participant suggests that the 27 atoms could correspond to a 3x3x3 supercell, which would indeed contain 27 atoms derived from the fcc structure.
  • A participant clarifies that the fcc, body-centered cubic (bcc), and simple cubic (sc) structures all have a primitive unit cell containing one atom, distinguishing it from the conventional unit cell.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the difference between primitive and conventional unit cells, emphasizing that the primitive cell for fcc is not cubic and has different lattice vectors.
  • One participant expresses gratitude for the clarification, indicating a better understanding of the concepts discussed.
  • Another participant notes confusion stemming from the paper's lack of mention of a "primitive" cell, highlighting their previous experience with conventional cells only.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions of primitive and conventional unit cells, but there is some confusion regarding the terminology used in the paper and the implications for the number of atoms in the supercell. The discussion remains somewhat unresolved regarding the specific context of the paper's claims.

Contextual Notes

There is a potential limitation in understanding due to the lack of clarity in the paper about the type of cell being referenced, which may lead to different interpretations of the atomic arrangement in palladium.

PHY-101
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Dear all,

I am trying to reproduce the results from a paper in computational physics and it says that for their simulation, they used a computational supercell of palladium of 27 atoms in a periodic system.

How can there be 27 atoms considering that in solid state, the palladium has a fcc structure and hence, that there is supposed to be 4 atoms per unit cell?

Anyone can help me with this?
 
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An fcc structure has one atom per primitive unit cell, with lattice vectors a1 = a/2(1,1,0), a2 = a/2(1,0,1), a3 = a/2(0,1,1). Probably they have a 3x3x3 supercell where the lattice vectors are just 3 times those.
 
Hum... isn't it the simple cubic structure that contains only one atom per unit cell?
 
fcc, bcc and sc all have a primitive unit cell with only one atom. You're confusing the conventional cell (which has 4 atoms for fcc) as being the primitive unit cell, and often times they are different cells. The primitive cell for fcc is not cubic (look at the vectors I gave you; they are not orthogonal) but it has the same symmetry of the cubic groups, so the conventional cell is to be cubic so you can see the symmetry.

Try writing down the atomic positions in a conventional fcc unit cell, and then use the lattice vectors I gave you to locate atomic positions from the primitive cell, and you will see that you get all the same atoms either way, but for the primitive cell you have only one atom per cell.
 
Thank you so much, now it is crystal clear ;0)
 
In fact, the definition of 'primitive cell' IS one atom/lattice point.
 
Yeah thanks Malawi, I sort of figured that out now!

But in the paper they never mentionned a "primitive" cell, that's where I got confused. Up until now, I had only worked with conventional cells and never would have thought there could me something smaller...
 

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