Solve Convolution Shortcut for x(t)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a convolution problem involving the functions x(t) = 2e-4tu(t) * e2tu(t) * t2σ(t - 2). Participants explore various methods to approach the convolution, including the use of properties of convolution and the Laplace transform.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant attempts to simplify the convolution of the first two functions and expresses uncertainty about how to proceed with the convolution involving t2σ(t - 2).
  • Another participant questions the meaning of σ(t) and suggests it may be the impulse function, δ(t), and proposes writing the formal convolution integral for the first two terms.
  • Several participants discuss the convolution integral and the need to adjust limits of integration, with some suggesting that the limits should be from -∞ to +∞, while others note that it can be adjusted based on the functions involved.
  • There is a suggestion to use the Laplace transform, with a participant noting its limitations and discussing the potential use of Fourier transforms instead.
  • Participants express confusion about the graphical representation of unit step functions and how it relates to determining limits of integration for the convolution.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of understanding the limits of integration based on the properties of the unit step functions involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to solve the convolution problem. There are multiple competing views regarding the use of graphical methods, the Laplace transform, and the appropriate limits of integration.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the properties of the functions involved, particularly the implications of using the impulse function and the limits of integration in the convolution integral.

  • #61
(4/3)[-exp(-4(t-2)) + exp(2(t-2))]
 
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  • #62
Color_of_Cyan said:
(4/3)[-exp(-4(t-2)) + exp(2(t-2))]
May the gods be praised!

BTW realize I may have made a mistake myself at some point. Let me know if our answer agrees with your prof please?
 
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  • #63
Thank you so much for being patient with me, hah.

Are you able to check your "inbox" here?
Sure thing...
 
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  • #64
Color_of_Cyan said:
Thank you so much for being patient with me, hah.

Are you able to check your "inbox" here?
Sure thing...
Sure. You can let me know either on this forum or by private message.
 
  • #65
rude man said:
Sorry, I keep saying -U when I mean U(-).
So you want to graph U{-(T - t)}.
Change (T-t) to t on the horizontal (T) axis and you'd be there.
Now, multiply the two graphs into one new graph.
It's real easy if you understand
0 x 0 = 0
0 x 1 = 0
1 x 0 = 0
1 x 1 = 1
For this, what if it was instead a ramp function or parabolic function instead of a step? Would I 'solve' for the integration limits the same way?
 
  • #66
Color_of_Cyan said:
For this, what if it was instead a ramp function or parabolic function instead of a step? Would I 'solve' for the integration limits the same way?

I'll look at this also tomorrow. There may not be a finite answer if it's a ramp for example.
 
  • #67
I meant to post also that I think I know what's with the missing U(t-2) term. Will try to send answer tomorrow.
 
  • #68
rude man said:
I meant to post also that I think I know what's with the missing U(t-2) term. Will try to send answer tomorrow.
Well, it's tomorrow! (12:32 a.m.) :smile:

OK, here's the deal:
Mathematically, the U(t-2) does not belong.

Let
h1= 2exp(-4t)
h2 = exp(2t)
x = t2δ(t-2)
y = x*(h1*h2)
By the conventional formula for convolution, the answer is y = (4/3){[exp2(t-2)] - exp[-4(t-2)]} as we have derived. Per wikipedia:

af6070d78ff3159afd6d7892f7f3de09.png


f30ca5808f30244853ae4226d7235330.png


d7c4f76dcc7928b5cb5728a7f52b719b.png


but
c3ac42c8f25f5ed8d75a24c9aa435eef.png

so
b31c083eee6b0336225a901a4d0791a9.png

Notice: No U(t-T) term.

On the other hand, assume h1 and h2 are the impulse responses for two separate networks connected in cascade (series). Then the impulse response for the combined network is h1*h2 = 2[exp(2t) - exp(-4t)].
Now we apply an input x = t2δ(t-2). Since the input x is zero until t = 2, so must be the output. So when we evaluate the convolution integral y = x*(h1*h2) = (4/3){[exp2(t-2)] - exp[-4(t-2)]} we need to multiply that expression by U(t-2) for the network since otherwise we don't get zero output for t < 2.

In other words: it depends on how the convolution integral is interpreted. If you omit the U(t-2) term you get a finite output for t < 2 which is wrong for the network, but U(t-2) does not appear in the mathematically derived convolution integral. So, bottom line, I'd say our answer is at least as valid as theirs.

This is similar to many problems in algebra. For example, area of a square of side x = x2. What are the sides? You can't have negative sides even though (-x)(-x) = x2 also.
 

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