Solving a 5-Digit Probability Problem Using Combinations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a combinatorial problem involving the formation of 5-digit numbers from the integers 1 to 9, with the constraint that no digit can appear more than twice. Participants explore different approaches to calculate the total number of valid combinations and seek clarification on the reasoning behind various methods.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes an initial approach using the formula 18!/((2!*9)(18-5)!) to calculate the number of combinations.
  • Another participant challenges this approach, suggesting it does not adequately account for the different combinations of digits, particularly those with one or two pairs of the same digit.
  • A further clarification is requested regarding the meaning of "one or two pairs the same."
  • Another participant elaborates on the initial approach, indicating that the model used counts some arrangements multiple times and suggests a correction method by dividing into cases based on the number of repeated digits.
  • Specific calculations for cases with no repeated digits, one digit repeated, and two digits repeated are presented, leading to a range of possible answers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct approach or final answer, with multiple competing views and methods presented throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the appropriate corrections for overcounting in their calculations and the implications of different cases on the final result.

DrAlexMV
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Problem Statement:
How many 5 digit number can be formed from the integers 1,2, ..., 9 if no digit can appear more than twice?

Approach:
18!/((2!*9)(18-5)!)

Reason:
Using the combination formula, we were able to approach this problem by saying that there are 18 numbers from which only 5 are chosen and the order does not matter for individual groups of two numbers.

Is this approach correct? I would love a very detailed explanation of this problem since many of the ones in class are about this same difficulty level.
 
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That answer (57120) is close, but doesn't allow properly for the different combinations of one or two pairs the same etc.
In general, there's no easy way to solve these. For this one I would start with the full 95 and remove the disallowed:
- three the same, two different: 9 * 8 * 7 * 5C2
- "full house": 9 * 8 * 5C2
- four the same: 9 * 8 * 5C1
- five the same: 9
Result: 52920
 
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "one or two pairs the same, etc"?
 
DrAlexMV said:
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "one or two pairs the same, etc"?
You set up a model in which each digit is represented twice, as 1a, 1b, 2a, 2b etc. say.
Your 18!/(18-5)! is the number of ways of choosing 5, in order, from 18. That's too many for two reasons: because choosing a single '1' will be counted twice (1a, 1b) and because choosing 1a for a certain position and 1b for another gives the same result as if they were swapped around. You can correct for the first problem by dividing by 32 (25, not 2!*9), but that overcorrects when both the a and b copies are used (divides by 2 for each of the two digit positions instead of just once for the pair).
If we subdivide 18!/(18-5)! into three cases:
X = number with no repeated digits
Y = number with one digit repeated
Z = number with two digits repeated
then the final answer will be X/32 + Y/16 + Z/8
So we can see the answer lies between (18!/(18-5)!)/8 and (18!/(18-5)!)/32. You happened to divide by 18, so got a number that wasn't too far off.
Btw, X = 18 * 16 * 14 * 12 * 10 = 483840, Y = 9 * 5 * 4 * 16 * 14 * 12 = 483840, Z = 9C2 * 5 * 4 * 3 * 2 * 14 = 60480.
X + Y + Z = 18!/(18-5)!; X/32 + Y/16 + Z/8 = 52920.
 

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