Solving Basic Calculus: Integrals with Logarithms and Variable Limits

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    Basic calculus Calculus
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the manipulation of an integral involving logarithms and variable limits, specifically addressing whether a function can be factored out of an integral and a logarithm. The context includes mathematical reasoning and clarification of notation in calculus.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Luca presents an integral of the form log(∫_{r}^{∞} P(r,f)/P(f) dr) and questions whether P(f) can be factored out of the integral.
  • Some participants assert that P(f) can be brought outside the integral but not outside the logarithm.
  • One participant suggests a logarithmic identity that separates the integral and the function P(f) correctly.
  • Concerns are raised about using the same variable (r) for both the lower limit and the variable of integration.
  • Another participant notes that P(r, f) and P(f) may represent different functions and suggests they should be named differently to avoid confusion.
  • There is a suggestion that P(f) could be equivalent to P(r_0, f) for some fixed r_0, indicating a potential common practice in notation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the incorrectness of factoring P(f) outside the logarithm, but there is no consensus on the naming conventions for the functions or the implications of their domains.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the notation and the implications of using the same variable for different purposes in the integral. The discussion does not clarify the specific domains of P(r, f) and P(f).

pamparana
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Hello everyone,

I have an integral of the following form:

log(\int_{r}^{\inf}\frac{P(r,f)}{P(f)}dr)

Now, my question is that since the integral is wrt to r, can I bring P(f) outside. So:

\frac{1}{P(f)}log(\int_{r}^{\inf}P(r,f)dr)

Thanks,

Luca
 
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You can bring it outside the integral.
But you also brought it outside the log, which is wrong.
 
Outside of the integral? Yes. Outside of the log? no.
 
You can, of course, say
ln\left(\frac{1}{P(f)}\int P(r,f)dr\right)= ln\left(\int P(r,f)dr\right)- ln(P(f))

By the way, it is not a good idea to use r as the lower limit of the integral and as the variable of integration.
 
Also, since P(r, f) and P(f) appear to be different functions with different domains, they should have different names.
 
Mark44 said:
Also, since P(r, f) and P(f) appear to be different functions with different domains, they should have different names.

It could be that P(f) \equiv P(r_0 , f) for some fixed r_0, I've seen that used quite a lot.
 
Thank you guys. That is very helpful. Sorry, did not intend to put it outside the log in my original post! Latex type :)

Many thanks,

Luca
 

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