Solving Cable Balance for T0 and T1

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the analysis of cable tension in two scenarios: when the weight per unit length of the cable (g') is zero and when it is not. Participants are examining the relationships between various tension forces (T0 and T1) and other parameters such as the cable length (L) and a constant weight (G).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are exploring the implications of different values of g' on cable tension, questioning the derivation of the equations presented, and discussing the balance of forces involved. There are attempts to clarify the relationship between tensions at different points in the cable and the role of the weight G.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of the equations and their implications, with some participants questioning the validity of certain assumptions and calculations. Multiple interpretations of the relationships between tensions are being discussed, and guidance is being sought on eliminating certain variables from the equations.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express concern over the assumptions made regarding tension when g' equals zero, suggesting that the equations may not account for all forces acting on the cable. There is also a mention of needing to present equations in terms of L, indicating a potential constraint in the problem setup.

wah31
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Mod note: Moved from technical forum, so missing the HW template.
Hello everybody and happy new year :partytime:

Here is a solution for the following case. Do you agree with ? Thank you in advance for your answer

The question is to give the values of T0 T1 and d in terms of g', L and G in these 2 cases:
1. g'=0
2. g‘ ≠ 0

See attached file..



Proposition:
Cable balance (without counterweight):


The y coordinate (height) of any point in terms of the horizontal force :
y = Th / g’ ∙ (cosh (g’ ∙ x / Th) - 1)


The cable length from origin (center):
s = Th / g’ ∙ sinh(g’ ∙ x / Th)


The total cable length:
S = (2Th / g’) ∙ sinh (g’ ∙ L / 2Th)


The cable span:
L = (2Th / g’) ∙ arcsinh (S ∙ g’/ 2Th)


The horizontal force :
Th = (g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)
This tension is constant over the entire length of the cable.


The vertical force :
Tv = g’ ∙ S / 2
This tension increases with the height (from the center to the end of the cable)


The minimum tension is, of course, Th, at the center point where the cable doesn't support any of it's own weight.Cable balance (with counterweight)

1. g’ = 0

Tension in the middle of the cable T0
Th = 0
Tv = G


T0 = (Th2 + Tv2)0.5 = G


Tension at the end of the cable T1
Th = 0
Tv = G


T1 = (Th2 + Tv2)0.5 = G


2. g‘ ≠ 0


Tension in the middle of the cable T0
Th = (g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)
Tv = G


T0 = (Th2 + Tv2)0.5
T0 = [(g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)]2 + G2]0.5

Tension at the end of the cable T1
Th = (g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)
Tv = g’ ∙ S / 2 + G


T1 = (Th2 + Tv2)0.5
T1 = [(g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)]2 + (g’ ∙ S / 2 + G)2]0.5
 

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If T1 is not equal to G, what will happen?

Is g' the weight per unit length of the rope? Please explain where your starting equations come from. Did you derive these or are you taking them as standard?
 
That’s right, g’ is the cable weight per unit length

I think G is there to balance the cable weight i.e. the vertical component of tension Tv

These equations come from the catenary principle, have a look below:
http://home.earthlink.net/~w6rmk/math/catenary.htm
 
wah31 said:
I think G is there to balance the cable weight i.e. the vertical component of tension Tv
When a rope passes over a stationary, frictionless pulley, what is the usual relationship between the tension on the one side and the tension on the other?
 
It is the same ..
You mean that T1 is equal to G?
 
wah31 said:
It is the same ..
You mean that T1 is equal to G?
Yes.
 
Now if I summarize we get:

For g’ = 0


Tension in the middle of the cable T0

Th = (g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)=0

Tv = g’ ∙ S / 2 =0

T0 = 0

Tension at the end of the cable T1

Th = (g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)=0

Tv = G

T1 = (Th2 + Tv2)0.5 = G

For g‘ ≠ 0

Tension in the middle of the cable T0

Th = (g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)

Tv = 0

T0 = (g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)

Tension at the end of the cable T1

Th = (g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)

Tv = g’ ∙ S / 2

T1 = (Th2 + Tv2)0.5 =G

T1 = [(g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)]2 + (g’ ∙ S / 2 )2]0.5 = G

Is that correct ?
 
You are getting nonsense answers for the easy case, g'=0. How can the tension in the middle be zero?
I think you are using equations that don't allow for a source of tension other than the weight of the cable.

In theother case, you have S in the answer. You need to eliminate that.
 
I tried another approach that I believe is the right (see attached file):

For g’ = 0


Tension in the middle of the cable T0
H = (g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)=0
V = G (the cable doesn't support any of it's own weight)
T0 = G

Tension at the end of the cable T1
H = (g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)=0
V = G
T1 = G

It means that the tension is the same over the entire length of the cable (=G)

For g‘ ≠ 0


Tension in the middle of the cable T0
H = (g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)
V = 0 (the cable doesn't support any of it's own weight)
T0 = (g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)

Tension at the end of the cable T1
H = (g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)
V = g’ ∙ S / 2
T1 = (H2 + V2)0.5 = G

T1 = [(g’ / 8d) ∙ (S2 – 4d2)]2 + (g’ ∙ S / 2 )2]0.5 = G

Now I need actually to eliminate S and present equations in terms of L ?

Do you have an idea ?
 

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