Solving Dynamics Problems: Ramp and Friction Forces

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a dynamics problem involving a box on a ramp inclined at 45 degrees, with a focus on the effects of friction forces. The original poster seeks assistance in determining forces that allow the box to remain at rest under specified conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to calculate the maximum upward force that can be applied parallel to the ramp and the minimum perpendicular force needed to keep the box at rest. They express uncertainty about the role of kinetic friction and the implications of their calculations.
  • Some participants question how the application of a perpendicular force affects the normal force and, consequently, the friction force.
  • Others suggest that if the box is to remain at rest, the static friction must equal the gravitational component acting down the ramp.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, providing feedback on the original poster's calculations and exploring the implications of different forces on the box's motion. There is a recognition of the need to consider how changes in normal force affect friction, and some guidance has been offered regarding the relationship between static friction and gravitational forces.

Contextual Notes

The problem involves specific coefficients of friction and the condition that the box remains at rest, which may lead to discussions about the assumptions made regarding forces acting on the box.

James_fl
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Hi everyone,

I'm having a problem in solving dynamics problem involving ramp and friction forces. I'm wondering if anyone could give me some help to check my answers and give some hints on how to solve the problem :P

Anyways, here is the description of the problem. If you find it unclear, please let me know:

A box with a mass of 22 kg is at rest on a ramp inclined at 45 degrees to the horizontal. The coefficients of friction between the box and the ramp are \mu_{s}=0.78 and \mu_{k}=0.65.

a) Determine the magnitude of the largest force that can be applied upward, parallel to the ramp, if the box is to remain at rest.
b) Determine the magnitude of the smallest force that can be applied onto the top of the box, perpendicular to the ramp, if the box is to remain at rest.

This is how I solved (a):

F_{app} is the magnitude of the force applied to the box upward and parallel to the ramp.
F_{g} is the magnitude of the gravity force.
Fsmax
F_{s, max} is the maximum static friction force.
\theta is the inclination of the ramp.

If F_{app} > F_{s, max} + F_{g} sin \theta, the box will move upward parallel to the ramp. Therefore, the maximum F_{app} if the box is to remain at rest:

F_{app} = F_{s} + F_{g} sin \theta
F_{app} = \mu_{s} * m * g * cos \theta + m * g * sin \theta
F_{app} = m * g ( \mu * cos \theta + sin \theta )
F_{app} = 22 kg * 9.8 \frac{m}{s^{2}} * (0.78 * cos 45 + sin 45)
F_{app} = 270N (correct to two significant digits).

Am I doing it correctly? I'm suspicious that I'd need to plug in the kinetic friction force somewhere.. Plus when I do some calculation, it seems that the downward force parallel to the ramp (F_{g} sin \theta) is greater than the F_{s, max} = F_{N} * \mu_{s} which means the object should be experiencing a downward acceleration parallel to the ramp. However, the question explicitly mentioned that the box is at rest. Is this caused by the kinetic friction force?

About question (b), I'm not sure how could a force perpendicular to the ramp affects the motion of an object on the ramp since the applied force is perpendicular to the possible direction of the boxes motion (down the slope or up the slope). And I don't know whether the motion will be upward or downward parallel to the ramp.

However, I have a partial solution. But I don't know how to insert my free body diagram to this post. If anyone could help me, I'd greatly appreciate that :smile:.

But basically I assumed that the net force will be going down parallel to the ramp since any object will naturally fall to ground. If the downward force parallel to the ramp > (Fs, max) the box will move from rest. As described: F_{down} > F_{s, max}

So I need to calculate:
a) the downward force parallel to the ramp
b) the F_{s, max} opposing the motion

I can find the force mentioned in (a) by considering that the resultant force perpendicular to the ramp can be calculated by adding the applied force to the component of gravity perpendicular to the ramp: F_{resultant} = F_{app} + F_{g} cos \theta.

From there, I could find F_{down} = F_{resultant} * tan \theta.

Since F_{resultant} = F_{app} + F_{g} cos \theta. Through subsitution, if the object is to move from rest:

( F_{app} + F_{g} cos \theta ) * tan \theta > F_{s, max}

Therefore, the minimum magnitude of Fapp is:

F_{app} = (F_{s, max} / tan \theta) - F_{g} cos \theta

Is it correct?

Thanks very much!
 
Last edited:
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your part a looks right to me

for part b, when you apply the perpindicular force, the normal force changes, correct? so then the friction force will also change.
 
So if the object is to stay at rest, I need to find the Fs where: F_{s} = F_{s, max}. From there, I could find Fn through: F_{N} = F{s} * \mu_{s}. Then I could find The Fapp since: F_{app} = F_{N} - F_{g} cos \theta

Is that correct?
 
Last edited:
Also, does it mean kinetic friction force has no effect here?
 
James_fl said:
Also, does it mean kinetic friction force has no effect here?

yes, seems like it
 
James_fl said:
So if the object is to stay at rest, I need to find the Fs where: F_{s} = F_{s, max}. From there, I could find Fn through: F_{N} = F{s} * \mu_{s}. Then I could find The Fapp since: F_{app} = F_{N} - F_{g} cos \theta
Is that correct?


If the object is to stay at rest, you would need to find Fs where Fs = Fgsin theta.
 
ah that's correct. Thanks a lot andrew :)
 

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