Solving One Tough Integral: Elliptical Integrals and Inverse Jacobian Functions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the evaluation of a specific integral involving elliptical integrals and inverse Jacobian functions, represented as I_n(r,z)=∫_z^r (p^n / (√(r²-p²)√(p²-z²))) dp, where n is an integer and 0

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the integral and expresses confusion about its evaluation, suggesting a connection to elliptical integrals and inverse Jacobian functions.
  • Another participant disputes the claim that the integral is zero for any choice of n, r, and z, providing a counterexample with specific values and suggesting that the integrand is positive in that case.
  • Some participants emphasize the importance of the inequality conditions on z and r, questioning the clarity of the problem and the conditions under which the integral might be zero.
  • A participant mentions the potential difficulty of solving the integral analytically due to its relation to elliptic functions and references a book discussing these functions in the context of the KdV equation.
  • One participant claims to have found a solution involving hypergeometric functions and shares a result, indicating that it can be evaluated for various values of r and z.
  • Another participant clarifies that the hypergeometric function mentioned is the Appell Hypergeometric function of two variables, noting a change in the variable of integration from p to x.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus regarding the integral's result. There are competing views on whether the integral can be zero under certain conditions, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of the integral's evaluation.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the conditions under which the integral evaluates to zero and the feasibility of finding an analytical solution. There are references to specific mathematical functions and their properties, but no definitive conclusions are drawn.

pocaracas
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Hi,

I've been dealing with a really mind buster, at least, for me.
Here it is
[tex]I_n(r,z)=\int_z^r\frac{p^n}{\sqrt{r^2-p^2}\sqrt{p^2-z^2}}\,dp[/tex]

where [tex]n[/tex] is an integer and [tex]0<z<r<1[/tex].

Mathematica tells me that the result is zero, but I'd like to know how to get there.
I've thought about elliptical integrals but Abramowitz doesn't help much beyond telling me that the Equivalent Inverse Jacobian Elliptic Function of
[tex]a\int_b^x\frac{dt}{\sqrt{(a^2-t^2)(t^2-b^2)}}[/tex]
is
[tex]nd^{-1}\left(\frac{x}{b}|\frac{a^2-b^2}{a^2}\right)[/tex]

and
[tex]a\int_x^a\frac{dt}{\sqrt{(a^2-t^2)(t^2-b^2)}}[/tex]
is
[tex]dn^{-1}\left(\frac{x}{a}|\frac{a^2-b^2}{a^2}\right)[/tex]

Whatever this means. I know nothing about these functions. nd and dn?
Any help?
 
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It says the result is zero for any choice of n, r and z? That's certainly not true! Just pick some values and plot the integrand, e.g. n = 3, r = 2, z = 1. You'll see that in this example from 1 to 2 the integrand is only positive, and hence the integral can't be zero.

I'm assuming then that I misinterpreted the question. I doubt I can help you beyond what I pointed out there above, but reclarifying the question might help others see what your problem is.
 
Last edited:
Mute, look at the inequality condition on z and r.

I'm not sure if that's do able in terms of elementary functions, especially since it's the inverse of an elliptic function. Must it be solved analytically?
 
Gib Z said:
Mute, look at the inequality condition on z and r.

Doesn't really matter. r = 0.9 and z = 0.5 still gives a nonzero result when graphed, which is what I was getting at. We need to be given more information about what the problem is, because it's not clear under what conditions the integral is zero.

I'm not sure if that's do able in terms of elementary functions, especially since it's the inverse of an elliptic function. Must it be solved analytically?

I remember the book on Solitons by Drazin and Johnson had some discussion of these functions since some of them were solutions to the KdV equation, but I can't remember to what extent the functions were discussed (since it is primarily a book about the KdV equations and Solitons(, so the book might not be so usefull for this purposes. At any rate, the book at Amazon is

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0521336554/?tag=pfamazon01-20
 
Result of the integral

Hi,

Solving the integral as an indefinite integral results in a nice little function involving hypergeometric functions. Please find the result in the attached GIF file.

I guess it'll be easy now for everyone to evaluate it for all the values of r and z.

Regards
Chandranshu
 

Attachments

  • Integral.gif
    Integral.gif
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Missing information

I forgot to add that the hypergeometric function in the result set is the Appell Hypergeometric function of two variables. See http://mathworld.wolfram.com/AppellHypergeometricFunction.html for more information. Also, I have used 'x' as the variable of integration in place of 'p'. This should be a small inconvenience.

Regards
Chandranshu
 
Last edited:

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