Solving Riemann Sum Problem: Integral of x^x

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the evaluation of the integral $$\int_{0}^{1} x^{x} dx$$ using Riemann sums. Participants explore the challenges of applying Riemann sums to this integral, questioning the validity of the initial conclusions drawn about the limit and the nature of the function involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant attempts to evaluate the integral using Riemann sums and concludes that the result is 0, expressing uncertainty about the correctness of this conclusion.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the initial conclusion, pointing out that while the limit of each term approaches 0, the sum of the terms must be considered collectively.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the correct method for solving the integral, noting that simpler cases seem to yield closed forms more easily.
  • Concerns are raised about the assumption that a nice closed form exists for the integral, with some participants suggesting that Riemann sums may not be the best approach for more complex functions.
  • References to external sources, such as WolframAlpha and Wikipedia, are made to support claims about the divergence of the series and to provide additional context on related mathematical concepts.
  • There is a suggestion that the participant may need to change their approach to solving the integral, indicating a willingness to explore alternative methods.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the validity of the initial conclusion that the integral evaluates to 0. There is no consensus on the best method to approach the problem, and multiple competing views on the effectiveness of Riemann sums for this integral remain.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of evaluating integrals involving non-polynomial functions and the potential limitations of Riemann sums in such cases. There is an acknowledgment of the difficulty in finding closed forms for certain integrals.

MAGNIBORO
Messages
106
Reaction score
26
Hi.
I try to solve the integral $$\int_{0}^{1} x^{x} dx$$
Through sums of riemann But I came to the conclusion that the result is 0 that is wrong
$$\int_{0}^{1} x^{x} dx = \lim_{n\rightarrow \infty }\frac{1}{n}\sum_{k=1}^{n} \left ( \frac{k}{n} \right )^{\frac{k}{n}}$$
$$= \lim_{n\rightarrow \infty }\frac{\frac{1}{n}^{\frac{1}{n}}}{n} + \frac{\frac{2}{n}^{\frac{2}{n}}}{n} + ... +\frac{\frac{n-1}{n}^{\frac{n-1}{n}}}{n} + \frac{1}{n}=0$$
$$\int_{0}^{1} x^{x} dx = 0 $$

I'm sure the mistake is expand the ##\frac{1}{n}\sum_{k=1}^{n} \left ( \frac{k}{n} \right )^{\frac{k}{n}}##

because in some easy integrals like ##\int_{0}^{1} x dx## if you expand the ##\frac{1}{n}\sum_{k=1}^{n} \left ( \frac{k}{n} \right )## you get
$$= \lim_{n\rightarrow \infty } \frac{1}{n^{2}}+\frac{2}{n^{2}}+...+\frac{n-1}{n^{2}}+\frac{1}{n} = 0$$
Instead of finding a "closed" formula like:
$$= \lim_{n\rightarrow \infty } \frac{n(n+1)}{2\, n^{2}}=\frac{1}{2}$$
so If I can not find a formula like ## \frac{n(n+1)}{2}## for ## \sum_{k=1}^{n} \left ( \frac{k}{n} \right )^{\frac{k}{n}}##
the limit of the riemman sum is wrong?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Where does the first "=0" come from? The limit of each fraction is 0, but you add more terms in each step, you cannot simply look at the limits of each fraction.

The limit is wrong, but the problem is not the lack of a general formula for the sum.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: MAGNIBORO
mfb said:
Where does the first "=0" come from? The limit of each fraction is 0, but you add more terms in each step, you cannot simply look at the limits of each fraction.

The limit is wrong, but the problem is not the lack of a general formula for the sum.

Ok then what is the correct way to solve the problem?
Because in simple cases as in polynomials it is enough Arrive at a formula to resolve the limit.
in more complex function is "easy" to solve the problem Through riemann sums or is very difficult?
Maybe I have to change the method?
 
What makes you think there is a nice closed form for the solution?
In general Riemann sums are not easy to evaluate. For polynomials they work, but even there they are not the easiest approach.
 
According to wolframalpha, the series diverges!
 
mfb said:
What makes you think there is a nice closed form for the solution?
In general Riemann sums are not easy to evaluate. For polynomials they work, but even there they are not the easiest approach.
well I suspected it but as the sum of riemann is the definition of integral I thought they might be useful for something other than polynomials
so Then I'll try another approach. thanks
ShayanJ said:
According to wolframalpha, the series diverges!
I believe you but wolframalpha hates me
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/...rmassumption={"C",+"limit"}+->+{"Calculator"}
Stephen Tashi said:
I already knew the result but wanted to get it myself And as it is a sum I thought that the sums of riemann or the series of taylor would be a good approximation
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K