Solving Tensor Integration on a Unit Sphere: Help Needed

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the integration of tensors over the surface of a unit sphere, specifically addressing the mathematical formulation and the implications of tensor operations in this context. Participants explore the correctness of the integration process and the treatment of indices, as well as the necessity of considering the unit tensor during integration.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an integration equation involving tensors and expresses confusion about the expected result, specifically questioning the absence of a factor of '3' in the denominator when integrating over the surface of a unit sphere.
  • Another participant challenges the formulation by pointing out potential issues with the indices not adding up and suggests that the tensor \( e_m \otimes e_n \) should not be treated as a constant during integration.
  • A third participant questions the meaning of dividing by a tensor and how this operation is defined within the context of vector spaces, indicating a need for clarification on tensor operations.
  • The original poster responds by asserting that each component of the tensor \( \mathbf{P} \) is a function of the \( \mathbf{D}^{-1} \) tensor and discusses the potential for rewriting equations involving tensor division.
  • There is a suggestion to consider transforming the tensor basis when using spherical coordinates for integration, indicating a concern about the appropriateness of the chosen basis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the treatment of indices and the nature of tensor operations, indicating that there is no consensus on the correctness of the integration approach or the assumptions made regarding the tensors involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the implications of tensor division and the treatment of the tensor basis, which may affect the integration process. There are unresolved questions about the mathematical steps involved and the definitions being used.

tim85ruhruniv
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Could someone help me out ??

I tried this integration over the surface of a sphere of unit radii,

[tex]\[<br /> P_{mn}e_{m}\otimes e_{n}=\frac{1}{D_{pq}e_{p}\otimes e_{q}}\int e_{m}\otimes e_{n}dS_{r=1}\][/tex]

and I always get [tex]\[<br /> 4\pi e_{m}\otimes e_{n}\][/tex] and the 'D' tensor as it is..

I am expecting additionally a '3' in the denominator, am I wrong ? If i do the integration over unit volume then I get the 3 in the denominator. Sorry for sounding stupid but is there a necessity to consider the unit tensor, i just assume it as a constant under integration.
 
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Homework assignments and stuff like that should be posted in the appropriate section.

I don't get your indices either; it seems they don't add up on left and right hand sides. [tex]e_m \otimes e_n[/tex] definitely needs not be constant. Consider for example usual spherical coordinates.
 
tim85ruhruniv said:
[tex]\[<br /> P_{mn}e_{m}\otimes e_{n}=\frac{1}{D_{pq}e_{p}\otimes e_{q}}\int e_{m}\otimes e_{n}dS_{r=1}\][/tex]

Okay, I'll bite; along with clamtrox's note about indices, I have questions. What does

[tex]\frac{1}{D_{pq}e_{p}\otimes e_{q}}[/tex]

mean? How does one divide by a tensor (not the component of a tensor), which is an element of a vector space?
clamtrox said:
Homework assignments and stuff like that should be posted in the appropriate section.

Yes and no. From the Physics Forums rules:
Since graduate level assignments are meant to be more thought provoking (and hence more worthy of discussion), graduate level questions will be allowed in the relevant part of the main section of PF, provided that the graduate student attempts the problem and shows his work.
 
hey !

Thanks guys for looking at my work.


I can't see how the indices don't add up... maybe i am missing something... but

Each component of
[tex]\[<br /> \mathbf{P}\][/tex]will be a function of the [tex]\mathbf{\mathrm{D}^{-1}}[/tex] tensor.


about division by the tensor..

[tex]x=\mathbf{D}y[/tex] for some 'x' and some 'y'

so I hope I can rewrite this as [tex]y=\mathbf{\mathrm{D}^{-1}}x[/tex]
and probably find the Inverse at a later stage. Which for the time being I believe doesent depend on the co-ordinates of integration.

Like clamtrox said, I use spherical co-ordinates to integrate, should I worry about [tex]\[<br /> e_{m}\otimes e_{n}\][/tex] should I transform the tensor basis ?
 

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