Solving the Mystery: Plane of Reference Question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of a remote control miniature toy helicopter inside a bullet train that accelerates rapidly. Participants explore the implications of the train's acceleration on the helicopter's ability to hover relative to the moving train, considering various scenarios and conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that if the train accelerates slowly, the helicopter will be carried along with the air in the compartment, allowing it to hover relative to the train.
  • Others raise the question of how much acceleration the toy helicopter can handle, indicating a concern about the forces involved.
  • A comparison is made to a pencil on a table in the train, where the pencil may be thrown off if the acceleration is sharp enough, suggesting that the helicopter's behavior may be similar under certain conditions.
  • One participant proposes a scenario involving a different vehicle, such as a jeepney, questioning how the open windows would affect the helicopter's ability to hover.
  • Another participant argues that if the jeepney has open windows, the helicopter would likely hover in place relative to the outside environment, potentially leaving it behind as the vehicle moves forward.
  • One participant concludes that the helicopter would most likely crash against the back wall of the train, indicating a different perspective on the outcome of the scenario.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the helicopter's behavior during the train's acceleration, with no consensus reached on whether it will hover or crash. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not specify the exact acceleration values or the limits of the helicopter's capabilities, leaving some assumptions and conditions unaddressed.

Handsome jack
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I saw random question somewhere on the internet a couple of weeks ago and it got me really thinking about it.

Supposedly you got a remote control miniature toy helicopter hovering inside a bullet train, if the bullet train suddenly started and accelerated to 200km/hr in 3.5 sec, will the toy helicopter hover with respect to the moving train or will it crash somewhere inside the train?
 
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Handsome jack said:
200km/hr in 3.5 sec,
How many "g?" How many "g" can the toy handle?
 
Handsome jack said:
I
Supposedly you got a remote control miniature toy helicopter hovering inside a bullet train, if the bullet train suddenly started and accelerated to 200km/hr in 3.5 sec, will the toy helicopter hover with respect to the moving train or will it crash somewhere inside the train?

When the train accelerates, the back wall of the compartment will push on the air in the compartment, very quickly bringing it up to speed. (That's why you don't feel any wind when you're sitting in a closed compartment in a moving train - you, the air, and the train are all moving at the same speed).

The toy helicopter is supported by the air, so it's going to do whatever the air is doing. If the acceleration of the train is reasonably slow, the helicopter will just be carried along with the air as it keeps up with the train. If the acceleration of the train is high enough, more interesting things can happen, but that will depend on the specific numbers involved.

You might try comparing this case with the behavior of a pencil resting on a table on the train. If the train accelerates or decelerates sharply enough the pencil will be thrown off the table, but if the acceleration is more gradual the pencil will stay put as it, the table, and the pencil all speed up. The helicopter is being accelerated by the force of the air on it and the air is accelerating because it's being pushed by the back wall of the compartment; the pencil is being accelerated by the force of friction between it and the table, and the table is being accelerated because it's fastened to the accelerating train.
 
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Nugatory said:
When the train accelerates, the back wall of the compartment will push on the air in the compartment, very quickly bringing it up to speed. (That's why you don't feel any wind when you're sitting in a closed compartment in a moving train - you, the air, and the train are all moving at the same speed).

The toy helicopter is supported by the air, so it's going to do whatever the air is doing. If the acceleration of the train is reasonably slow, the helicopter will just be carried along with the air as it keeps up with the train. If the acceleration of the train is high enough, more interesting things can happen, but that will depend on the specific numbers involved.

You might try comparing this case with the behavior of a pencil resting on a table on the train. If the train accelerates or decelerates sharply enough the pencil will be thrown off the table, but if the acceleration is more gradual the pencil will stay put as it, the table, and the pencil all speed up. The helicopter is being accelerated by the force of the air on it and the air is accelerating because it's being pushed by the back wall of the compartment; the pencil is being accelerated by the force of friction between it and the table, and the table is being accelerated because it's fastened to the accelerating train.

What would happen if it was in another vehicle with the windows open or something similar? perhaps a jeepney
 
Handsome jack said:
What would happen if it was in another vehicle with the windows open or something similar? perhaps a jeepney
What do you think and why?
 
Nugatory said:
What do you think and why?
well in my opinion perhaps the back windows are open, the toy copter would hover in the same place leaving it outside while the jeepney moved forward since there is no contained in the jeepney that would move it with respect to the vehicle since it's an open type of vehicle
 
The helicopter would most likely crash against the back wall.
 

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