Some elements react with certain elements better than others ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the reactivity of elements, particularly focusing on why certain elements, like Hydrogen and Chlorine, react well with each other. Participants explore concepts related to covalent and ionic bonding, energy changes during reactions, and the implications of electron configurations on reactivity.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that Hydrogen and Chlorine react well because Hydrogen seeks to lose its valence electron while Chlorine needs one to complete its shell.
  • Others argue that the HCl molecule is primarily covalent, with both elements achieving full valence shells, which influences their bonding behavior.
  • One participant discusses the energy dynamics of the reaction, noting that the energy released when Chlorine takes an electron from Hydrogen is significant, as indicated by a negative Delta G value.
  • There is a challenge regarding the classification of HCl as ionic or covalent, with some asserting that it behaves as an ionic bond when considering the transfer of electrons.
  • Participants clarify that a single H+ proton is not considered an atom but rather a cation, although it can be referred to as a hydrogen cation.
  • One participant questions whether elements that can easily achieve full electron shells react better than those that cannot, leading to further exploration of bond stability and reactivity.
  • Another participant counters that the presence of open shells does not necessarily indicate less stable bonds, as systems tend to react to form more complex compounds.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the bond in HCl, whether it is covalent or ionic, and the implications of electron configurations on reactivity. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference concepts such as standard reduction potentials and Delta G values, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of ionic and covalent bonds and the stability of various species in solution.

LogicalAcid
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Because let's say we have Hydrogen and Chlorine, they with both react very well with each other due to the reason that Hydrogen wants to get rid of its only Valence electron, to have an empty shell, and Cl needs only one more to have a full shell. Right?
 
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No.

HCl molecule is mostly covalent, and in HCl molecule they have both full valence shells. So in this case these full valance shells are the force behind.

Your explanation would work for ionic NaCl.
 
It's more like the amount of energy released from having chlorine take the electron is greater that the amount of energy lost by having hydrogen lose it. If you use a table of standard reduction potentials, you'll find that the reaction
Cl2 + H2 --> 2H+ + 2Cl-
has a Delta G value of -262 kJ, which means 262 kJ of energy is released for each mole of Cl2 which reacts.

Of course H+-cations are not stable in solution and would bind, for example to a water molecule, to form H3O+.
 
Borek said:
No.

HCl molecule is mostly covalent, and in HCl molecule they have both full valence shells. So in this case these full valance shells are the force behind.

Your explanation would work for ionic NaCl.

H gave its one electron to Cl which only needed one, now they are both ions, how is this not an ionic bond?
 
espen180 said:
It's more like the amount of energy released from having chlorine take the electron is greater that the amount of energy lost by having hydrogen lose it. If you use a table of standard reduction potentials, you'll find that the reaction
Cl2 + H2 --> 2H+ + 2Cl-
has a Delta G value of -262 kJ, which means 262 kJ of energy is released for each mole of Cl2 which reacts.

Of course H+-cations are not stable in solution and would bind, for example to a water molecule, to form H3O+.
A single H+ proton is considered an atom of H?
 
LogicalAcid said:
H gave its one electron to Cl which only needed one, now they are both ions, how is this not an ionic bond?

No, as long as HCl is not dissociated in water they share two electrons. HCl is not a good example here, as it doesn't follow the obvious trends.
 
LogicalAcid said:
A single H+ proton is considered an atom of H?

No, it is not an ATOM, it is an ion (cation to be precise). But yes, single proton is considered to be a hydrogen cation.
 
Borek said:
No, it is not an ATOM, it is an ion (cation to be precise). But yes, single proton is considered to be a hydrogen cation.

OK I understand, HCl is covalently bonded when not disassociated in water, but back to the question. If two elements have the exact amount of electrons one needs to lose or gain to have a full shell, they react better than ones that don't have the exact amount of electrons for both of them to have a full shell?
 
LogicalAcid said:
OK I understand, HCl is covalently bonded when not disassociated in water, but back to the question. If two elements have the exact amount of electrons one needs to lose or gain to have a full shell, they react better than ones that don't have the exact amount of electrons for both of them to have a full shell?

No, the fact that you seldomly observe a system with open shells is not that the bonds in it are less stable (or "do not form so well in a reaction" to use your diction) but that it usually will react to form even more complex compounds.
 

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