Some questions about spectroscopy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of light emission in gas discharge tubes and incandescent light bulbs, specifically focusing on the voltage requirements for gas excitation, the visibility of gas spectra, and comparisons between incandescent bulbs and LEDs in terms of their emitted light spectra.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Participants inquire about the voltage levels in gas discharge tubes, noting that while high voltages are required, the Franck-Hertz experiment suggests that only a few volts may suffice for certain applications.
  • Some participants propose that the lack of visible krypton spectrum in incandescent bulbs is due to low pressure and insufficient voltage to excite the gas, while others argue that the electricity does not pass through the gas, thus not exciting it.
  • One participant mentions that light in incandescent bulbs is generated by the heat of the wire rather than by electron bombardment of the gas, suggesting that absorption spectra might be observed instead.
  • There is a discussion about the differences in spectra emitted by LEDs and incandescent bulbs, with some participants noting that LEDs emit light in specific frequency ranges and questioning the definition of "fuller" and "clearer" spectra.
  • Some participants highlight that while both LEDs and incandescent bulbs emit a full spectrum, the visual representation may differ, particularly in terms of color gradient and transition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the gas in incandescent bulbs is not electrically excited, but there is disagreement regarding the implications of this on the visibility of the gas spectrum and the nature of the light emitted by LEDs versus incandescent bulbs. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the characteristics of the emitted spectra.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions about gas pressure, voltage levels, and the definitions of spectrum characteristics that are not fully explored or agreed upon in the discussion.

stripes
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When we want to view the spectrum of light emitted by a certain gas (via spectroscopy) how much voltage do those gas discharge tubes end up having? I know they are very high voltage, but how high exactly?

Now if I were to look at an incandescent light bulb through a spectroscope, I would see the full, continuous spectrum of light. Since light bulbs do contain some inert gas (like krypton), why don't we see the spectrum emitted by the krypton itself? Is it because light bulbs are usually low pressure? Is it because the voltage is only 120 V?

This is my guess: I know that an LED will emit a much "fuller" and "clearer" spectrum than a regular light bulb will. I am guessing that since the gas inside a light bulb is low pressure, there isn't enough of it to emit that specific gas' spectrum only. I would also guess that because there is insufficient voltage to cause the electrons to jump around in the energy levels of the krypton, we also don't see the discrete lines. Since an LED does not use a gas filled tube like a bulb does, the spectrum is much more complete. The low pressure gas inside a light, is not enough to show its discrete emission spectra. Moreover, the fact that we only have a small amount of that gas, this is what cases the light from a bulb to be less complete than the light from an LED.

If someone could help me with my questions I would appreciate it.
 
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stripes said:
Now if I were to look at an incandescent light bulb through a spectroscope, I would see the full, continuous spectrum of light. Since light bulbs do contain some inert gas (like krypton), why don't we see the spectrum emitted by the krypton itself? Is it because light bulbs are usually low pressure? Is it because the voltage is only 120 V?
The electricity doesn't go through the gas, so there is no electrical excitation of the gas.

stripes said:
Since an LED does not use a gas filled tube like a bulb does, the spectrum is much more complete.
The gas has nothing to do with it. You would get the same result is the filament was surrounded by a vacuum. The spectrum depends on the emission proporties of whatever is actually making the light.
 
stripes said:
When we want to view the spectrum of light emitted by a certain gas (via spectroscopy) how much voltage do those gas discharge tubes end up having? I know they are very high voltage, but how high exactly?
The Franck-Hertz experiment shows that a few Volts are sufficient, but if you want to light a room, devices with several hundred Volt are more practical.

Now if I were to look at an incandescent light bulb through a spectroscope, I would see the full, continuous spectrum of light. Since light bulbs do contain some inert gas (like krypton), why don't we see the spectrum emitted by the krypton itself? Is it because light bulbs are usually low pressure? Is it because the voltage is only 120 V?
Krypton is not bombarded by electrons there, light is generated by the heat of the wire. It might be possible to see some absorption of Krypton, as light has to pass through it. I don't know if there are lines in that range.

I know that an LED will emit a much "fuller" and "clearer" spectrum than a regular light bulb will.
What do you mean with "fuller" and "clearer"? LEDs emit light in some specific frequency range only.
 
I see now. The gas is not electrically excited in a light bulb. As for seeing some absorption of krypton, the concept makes sense (that's how one would view the absorption spectra for gases, send white light through a gas and then the light that is not absorbed by the gas is diffracted through a diffraction grating).

Someone told me that in the aforementioned case, the gas should be cold and not electrically excited. Is this true?

Some of the images I have seen of the spectrum emitted from an LED vs an incan. bulb have been different. Of course both give off the full spectrum but sometimes one looks more continuous in terms of the colour gradient/transition.
 
stripes said:
Some of the images I have seen of the spectrum emitted from an LED vs an incan. bulb have been different. Of course both give off the full spectrum but sometimes one looks more continuous in terms of the colour gradient/transition.

One single LED does not give off the full spectrum. If by this you mean full visible spectrum.
Maybe you mean an LED lamp? (these bright "white" ones)
Even then, they seem to have a peak in the blue region.
 

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