Space Wars: US Plans for Dominance and Monopolization

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of U.S. plans for establishing a permanent base on the moon and the potential militarization of space. Participants explore the motivations behind these plans, including resource monopolization, particularly helium-3, and the geopolitical ramifications of space-based weapons. The conversation touches on historical contexts, economic considerations, and the ethical dimensions of space exploration.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express concern over the U.S. aiming to monopolize lunar resources like helium-3, arguing it could hinder competition and fair pricing.
  • Others question the necessity of deploying weapons in space, suggesting that such actions could escalate conflicts rather than protect interests.
  • One participant critiques the timeline for moon bases presented in an article, labeling it as unrealistic and suggesting the author has a biased perspective.
  • There are discussions about the economic feasibility of mining helium-3 and whether it justifies the creation of weapons for territorial defense.
  • Some participants draw parallels between potential future space colonization and historical colonialism, raising ethical concerns about resource claims in space.
  • Several participants challenge the credibility of the article and its sensationalist tone, questioning the motivations behind the claims made.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of denying helium-3 to other nations, suggesting it could lead to increased reliance on fission energy sources.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views remain regarding the motivations for space militarization, the feasibility of resource extraction, and the ethical implications of monopolizing extraterrestrial resources.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments depend on assumptions about the future of space travel and resource availability, while others highlight the lack of clarity in the economic viability of mining operations. The discussion also reflects differing interpretations of the motivations behind military involvement in space.

  • #31
Art said:
Wouldn't coating the missiles with a highly reflective finish render the laser useless?
Like Russ mentioned, a highly reflective coating may not necessarily be reflective. But there are other counter measures - besides simply rotating the warhead so that the laser doesn't stay focussed on the same area - or deploying dummies.

Presumably the laser is designed to be pulsed, so that a lot of energy is brought to bear very rapidly. One of the challenges is tracking the incoming warhead and getting the time, distance and angle (orientation) just right.
 
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  • #32
Why bother with lasers? Oh wait, high tech, expensive = sexy.

Ever hear of the Thor Hammer? Basically depleted uranium "crowbars" in orbit. CO2 or nitrogen rockets for de-orbiting, minimal guidance. Pretty much all off the shelf hardware. Comes in at orbital speed, d'oh. Accurate to within about a hundred meters, which is about the diameter of the crater. Handy when you have an army of tanks coming at you. I believe it was first proposed in the early 80s, but Reagan just had to have his rayguns.
 
  • #33
Different application, different requirements. "Thor's Hammer" couldn't pick a missile out of the sky.
 
  • #34
Astronuc said:
Like Russ mentioned, a highly reflective coating may not necessarily be reflective. But there are other counter measures - besides simply rotating the warhead so that the laser doesn't stay focussed on the same area - or deploying dummies.

Presumably the laser is designed to be pulsed, so that a lot of energy is brought to bear very rapidly. One of the challenges is tracking the incoming warhead and getting the time, distance and angle (orientation) just right.
Reading the article it mentions that before the main laser fires far less powerful lasers are used to gain the information required to accurately aim the main beam. A reflective surface or even a prismatic surface should prevent the guidance lasers from being able to get a lock on the target??
 
  • #35
kleinjahr said:
Ever hear of the Thor Hammer? Basically depleted uranium "crowbars" in orbit. CO2 or nitrogen rockets for de-orbiting, minimal guidance. Pretty much all off the shelf hardware. Comes in at orbital speed, d'oh. Accurate to within about a hundred meters, which is about the diameter of the crater. Handy when you have an army of tanks coming at you. I believe it was first proposed in the early 80s, but Reagan just had to have his rayguns.
Depending on the mass of the crowbars, the CO2 or N2 rockets may not have sufficient thrust.

KE weapons have to be pretty accurate - hundred meters doesn't seem very accurate.

One of the biggest downsides to kinetic energy weapons is the potential for debris. Adding more debris to LEO is counterproductive, and any misses just add to high velocity projectiles that one has to deal with later on.

Lasers have a better range, and more time for targeting. However, depositing sufficient energy is the key and the challenge, even without countermeasures.
 
  • #36
Astronuc said:
Depending on the mass of the crowbars, the CO2 or N2 rockets may not have sufficient thrust.

KE weapons have to be pretty accurate - hundred meters doesn't seem very accurate.

One of the biggest downsides to kinetic energy weapons is the potential for debris. Adding more debris to LEO is counterproductive, and any misses just add to high velocity projectiles that one has to deal with later on.

Lasers have a better range, and more time for targeting. However, depositing sufficient energy is the key and the challenge, even without countermeasures.

It looks like kinetic energy weapons might be back on the table, considering the rumors that China just conducted an anti-satellite weapons test. James Oberg has a pretty good analysis on the chances of the rumors being true and their implication: Bold move escalates space war debate

Creating slowly spreading clouds of debris orbiting at over 16,000 mph isn't a good development. Space is still big enough compared to the number of objects in orbit that one test increases risk by an extremely small amount, but you never like the idea of self-reproducing weapons that damage spacecraft at random.

Here's a picture of the http://www.abc.se/~m235/shuhires.jpg. Notice how much nicer the external fuel tank looks when it's painted. They don't paint it anymore after a paint chip left a pretty deep 'ding' in the windshield of STS-59. 'Dings' that make it all the way through the Shuttle's surface raise even more alarm (Hole in radiator panel caused by debris impact during Atlantis’ flight. Even seemingly benign objects can do a lot of damage at orbital speeds.
 
  • #37
vanesch said:
But then, the main reason to go on the moon is not the He-3, but the dilithium crystals, no ? :biggrin:

hehe, what the hell is dilithium anyway? I know Star Trek is hardly spot on with it's physics? But the idea of di lithium has always puzzled me.
 
  • #38
Astronuc,
Thor's hammer was originally conceived as a weapon against planet side targets, not orbital. Though pinpoint accuracy would be nice, it is not absolutely necessary. ie: carpet bombing.
 

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