Spacetime Invariance and Lorentz Equations

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on proving the invariance of spacetime intervals, specifically demonstrating that s² = s'² using the Lorentz equations. The participant outlines their algebraic approach, starting with the definitions of s² and s'², and substituting the Lorentz transformations x' = γ(x - vt) and t' = γ(t - vx/c²). The conclusion drawn from their calculations suggests that spacetime is not invariant due to the dependence on the Lorentz factor γ, prompting a request for clarification on the algebraic steps taken.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Lorentz transformations
  • Familiarity with spacetime intervals in special relativity
  • Basic algebraic manipulation skills
  • Knowledge of the Lorentz factor (γ)
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  • Review the derivation of Lorentz transformations in special relativity
  • Study the concept of spacetime intervals and their invariance
  • Learn about the implications of the Lorentz factor (γ) on physical quantities
  • Explore common pitfalls in algebraic proofs in physics
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Students of physics, particularly those studying special relativity, educators teaching these concepts, and anyone interested in the mathematical foundations of spacetime theory.

LUphysics
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Homework Statement


So, I am working on a question that requires me to prove that s^2 = s'^2 from the Lorentz equations. It seemed like it'd be trivial... and then I ended up here a few hours later, not willing to waste any more time.

Homework Equations


By definition: s^2 = x^2 - (ct)^2 & s'^2 = x'^2 - (ct')^2
And the Lorentz equations are x' = y(x - vt) & t' = y(t - vx/(c^2) ) --> y = gamma for the lazy man

The Attempt at a Solution


So I followed this line of algebra:
Start with: s'^2 = x'^2 - (ct')^2
Sub in Lorentz Equations: = [y(x - vt)]^2 - c^2*[y(t - vx/(c^2) )]^2
Factor out y and Expand Brackets: = y^2 { [x^2 - 2xvt + (vt)^2] - c^2*[t^2 -2xvt/c^2 + ((vx)^2)/(c^4))] }
Multiply in -c^2 over on the right: = y^2 [x^2 - 2xvt + (vt)^2 -(ct)^2 + 2xvt - (v^2*x^2)/(c^2)]
Eliminate the 2xvt terms: = y^2 [x^2 + (vt)^2 -(ct)^2 - (v^2*x^2)/(c^2)]
Now, t = x/c, so by applying this to the rightmost term: = y^2 [x^2 + (vt)^2 -(ct)^2 - (vt)^2]
Eliminate the (vt)^2 terms: = y^2 [x^2 - (ct)^2]
And recall that s^2 = x^2 - (ct)^2: Therefore: ==> s'^2 = y^2[s^2]

There's my dilemma. This would mean spacetime is NOT invariant, since it depends on gamma. I'm not quite prepared to call the people who invented this liars, or to say I'm better at math than them... but I thought my algebra was pretty good and it led me to this. So... what's the problem?
 
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Welcome to PF!

Hi LUphysics! Welcome to PF! :smile:

(have a gamma: γ :wink:)

Sorry, but this is almost unreadable :redface:

can you type it again, using the X2 tag just above the Reply box? :smile:
 

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