Spaghettification: Geometrical & Mathematical Description

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    Spaghettification
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the geometrical and mathematical description of spaghettification, particularly in the context of black holes and tidal forces. Participants explore theoretical frameworks, mathematical approaches, and potential resources for understanding the phenomenon.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a geometrical and mathematical description of spaghettification and inquires about relevant papers or computer simulations.
  • Another participant references a detailed treatment in "Gravitation" by Misner, Thorne, and Wheeler (MTW) regarding the Schwarzschild metric, noting the need for familiarity with the Riemann tensor.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that spaghettification does not necessarily require a black hole, citing Saturn's rings as a result of spaghettification from a moon within the Roche limit.
  • It is noted that for small black holes, spaghettification occurs outside the event horizon, while for supermassive black holes, it happens well inside the horizon.
  • One participant challenges the general use of the term "spaghettification," arguing it specifically refers to the effects of tidal gravity increasing without bound as one approaches a singularity, and mentions chaotic oscillations in tidal gravity related to BKL singularities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition and applicability of spaghettification, with some asserting it is specifically tied to black holes, while others argue it can occur in different contexts, such as Saturn's rings. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise definition and scope of spaghettification.

Contextual Notes

There is a lack of consensus on the definitions of spaghettification and its applicability beyond black holes. The complexity of the mathematics involved is acknowledged, but specific assumptions and limitations in the discussion are not fully explored.

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TL;DR
Looking for geometrical description / mathematical approach to describe Spaghettification to a given body
Looking for geometrical description / mathematical approach to describe Spaghettification to a given body.
Is there a specific paper (maybe computer simulations) that can serve me to understand in detail the phenomena?
 
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There's a detailed treatment in MTW, for the Schwarzschld metric. But you'll need some familiarity with the Riemann tensor and its interpretation. to follow it It's an A-level approach (graduate level), I supect it's too high but don't see a level on this thread or have any insight.

The interior metric of an actual black hole will be differen than Schwarzschild.. Kip Thorne has a description of what he thinks will happen in one of his books, "Black holes and timewarps".
 
Does it need to be a singularity like a black hole? Saturn's rings are the result of spaghettification of some moon that dropped its orbit within the Roche limit. Of course I can't help you find a simulation of the formation of those rings. The mathematics involved is still quite complex, but probably less so than that of a black hole.
 
Note, for a small BH, spaghetificaction happens well outside the event horizon, while for a supermassive BH it happens only well inside the horizon.
 
Halc said:
Saturn's rings are the result of spaghettification of some moon that dropped its orbit within the Roche limit.

Not really. "Spaghettification" is not just a general term for "any effect of tidal gravity". It's a more specific term that describes what happens when tidal gravity increases without bound as some limit, such as the singularity inside a black hole, is approached.

Some authors use "spaghettification" in an even more specific sense, to mean, not just tidal gravity increasing without bound, but increasingly chaotic oscillations of tidal gravity, of the sort that occur in a BKL singularity.
 
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