Spatial derivative of Electric Field in Faraday's Law?

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the relationship between electric fields and time-varying magnetic fields as described by Faraday's Law, specifically the equation ##\nabla \times \mathbf{E} = -\frac{\partial \mathbf{B}} {\partial t}##. Participants clarify that the left side of the equation represents the curl of the electric field, which does not directly indicate current. It is established that while a time-varying magnetic field induces a spatially varying electric field, it does not imply that the electric field can be expressed solely as a time derivative. The conversation also touches on the implications of these relationships in the context of Maxwell's equations.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Faraday's Law of Induction
  • Familiarity with Maxwell's equations
  • Knowledge of vector calculus, particularly curl and divergence
  • Basic concepts of electromagnetism
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the implications of Maxwell's equations in electromagnetic theory
  • Explore the mathematical derivation of Faraday's Law
  • Learn about the physical significance of curl and divergence in electric and magnetic fields
  • Investigate the relationship between electric fields and current density as described in Ampere's Law
USEFUL FOR

Students and professionals in physics, electrical engineering, and applied mathematics who are looking to deepen their understanding of electromagnetic theory and the interplay between electric and magnetic fields.

sawer
Messages
65
Reaction score
2
According to Faraday's Law, Time-Changing magnetic field creates an induced current in a closed conducting loop.

This is the equation: ##\nabla \times \mathbf{E} = -\frac{\partial \mathbf{B}} {\partial t}##

1-) Does this current (##\nabla \times \mathbf{E} ##) have to be an alternate current(sinusoidal current)?

2-) If it is, then it is not just spatial varying current also time varying current. But why does left side of this equation (##\nabla \times \mathbf{E} ##) include spatial derivative of electric field? Can it be written with time derivative of electric field? (I mean time derivative electric field version). So it means time changing magnetic field relates to time changing electric field.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
upload_2016-11-3_16-17-18.png

sawer said:
According to Faraday's Law, Time-Changing magnetic field creates an induced current in a closed conducting loop.

This is the equation: ##\nabla \times \mathbf{E} = -\frac{\partial \mathbf{B}} {\partial t}##
Not quite. There is no current in this equation. A time varying magnetic field generates an electric field that has a curl given by the above equation. You can think of electromotive force around loops being related to the time changing magnetic flux through the loop as well (eg the integral form of this equation).

sawer said:
1-) Does this current (##\nabla \times \mathbf{E} ##) have to be an alternate current(sinusoidal current)?
The time variation does not have to be sinusoidal. It can be arbitrary. Again, no current here.

sawer said:
2-) If it is, then it is not just spatial varying current also time varying current. But why does left side of this equation (##\nabla \times \mathbf{E} ##) include spatial derivative of electric field? Can it be written with time derivative of electric field? (I mean time derivative electric field version). So it means time changing magnetic field relates to time changing electric field.
Not sure what you are getting at here. Perhaps if you explicitly include the dependencies of the fields it is more clear,
##\nabla \times \mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r},t) = -\frac{\partial} {\partial t} \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r},t)##
So this equation does indicate that the temporally changing magnetic field does yield a temporally changing electric field. The time derivative of the electric field is related to the curl of the magnetic field and the current density - the relationship is given in Ampere's Law. In free space (and MKS units) it is,
## \nabla \times \mathbf{B} = \mu_0 \mathbf{J} + \frac{1}{c^2} \frac{\partial}{\partial t} \mathbf{E} ##.
Here \mathbf{J} is the current density.

Jason
 
jasonRF said:
Not quite. There is no current in this equation.
If there is a conducting loop, doesn't a current appear?
jasonRF said:
##\nabla \times \mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r},t) = -\frac{\partial} {\partial t} \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r},t)##
So this equation does indicate that the temporally changing magnetic field does yield a temporally changing electric field.
This equation indicates that the temporally changing magnetic field does yield a "spatially" changing electric field. Right?
I am asking if this spatially changing electric field is also temporally changing, then can we write left side of this equation a time derivative version of the electric field? Would it be wrong?

Thanks...
 
sawer said:
If there is a conducting loop, doesn't a current appear?
Yes, a current appears in a conducting loop. Sorry for my mistake there. But please note that \nabla \times \mathbf{E} is not a current.

sawer said:
This equation indicates that the temporally changing magnetic field does yield a "spatially" changing electric field. Right?
If the right hand side of the equation is changing with time, then so is the left hand side. As an example, consider the fields,
\mathbf{B} = \mathbf{\hat{z}} B_0 \sin (\omega t)
\mathbf{E} = (y\mathbf{\hat{x}}- x\mathbf{\hat{y}})\frac{ B_0 \omega }{2} \cos (\omega t)
for B_0 a constant. These two fields are consistent with,
\nabla \times \mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r},t) = -\frac{\partial} {\partial t} \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r},t).
I would say both the electric and magnetic fields are varying with time, and yes, the electric field varies with position. The magnetic field is spatially uniform in this example.

sawer said:
I am asking if this spatially changing electric field is also temporally changing, then can we write left side of this equation a time derivative version of the electric field? Would it be wrong?
Thanks...
Yes, the spatially changing electric field would usually be temporally changing, as shown above. One exception would be if you have a case where \partial \mathbf{B}/\partial t = \mathbf{F}(\mathbf{r}) so is not a function of time.

No, you cannot in general write the left side as a time derivative of the electric field. There are only three types of derivatives of the electric field that we would need, and all of them are given to us in maxwell's equations. In free space they are,
\nabla \times \mathbf{E} = -\frac{\partial} {\partial t} \mathbf{B}.
\nabla \cdot \mathbf{E} = \rho /\epsilon_0
\frac{\partial} {\partial t} \mathbf{E} = c^2 \nabla \times \mathbf{B} - \mathbf{J}/\epsilon_0

Hope that helps.

Jason
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
683
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
602
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
838
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K