Spring in Space: 3 Questions Answered

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of a spacecraft and its interactions with springs and magnetic fields in a frictionless environment. Participants explore the implications of conservation of momentum and the dynamics of oscillation in both mechanical and electromagnetic contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that as one walks backwards while holding a spring, the spacecraft will move in the opposite direction.
  • Others propose that upon releasing the spring, both the spring and the spacecraft will oscillate in opposite directions for a time.
  • There is a discussion about the role of conservation of linear momentum, with some participants asserting that this principle applies due to the absence of external forces.
  • One participant questions whether the same dynamics would occur if the spacecraft were falling in a gravitational field, raising issues about the uniformity of the gravitational field.
  • Several participants shift the focus to magnetic fields, questioning how the magnetic flux lines would behave if a distorting force is removed, with some suggesting oscillatory behavior akin to a slinky.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that the magnetic flux lines would return to their original position without oscillation, but this remains uncertain.
  • One participant emphasizes that the outcome depends on the mechanical arrangement of the system, discussing scenarios where the magnet's movement could lead to harmonic motion or a return to equilibrium.
  • There is also a query about the behavior of magnetic flux lines in a DC motor when the load is suddenly removed, questioning whether they would return to their no-load position or distort further.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the behavior of both the spring and the magnetic field, with no consensus reached on the specific outcomes of the scenarios presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight various assumptions, such as the absence of external forces and the nature of the gravitational field, which may influence the discussion. The mechanical arrangements and their specifics are also noted as critical to understanding the dynamics involved.

chazemz
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I would like to ask some questions. I am in a spacecraft (I have grip on the floor) and at one end a spring is attached to the wall. I hold the spring and begin to walk backwards, extending the spring.
1) What will happen to the spacecraft as I walk backwards?
2) What will happen to the spacecraft when I let go of the spring?
3) What will happen to the spacecraft when the spring has returned to its original state?
 
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1. The spacecraft moves in the opposite direction.
2. The spring and the spacecraft oscillate in opposite directions for a bit (assuming the spring can oscillate in both directions and isn't fully compressed in its resting state).
3. The spacecraft will have moved backwards slightly relative to yourself.
 
I think all due to conservation of linear momentum as there is no external force.
Will the same happen if spacecraft is falling vertically down in gas friction free space i.e in gravity field(conservative force field).
 
gianeshwar said:
I think all due to conservation of linear momentum as there is no external force.
Will the same happen if spacecraft is falling vertically down in gas friction free space i.e in gravity field(conservative force field).
Is the gravitational field uniform? If so then adopt a coordinate system in which the spacecraft is at rest and use the previous answer.
 
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Changing the spring to a magnetic field. If I have a horseshoe magnet and distort the magnetic field between the poles. If I suddenly remove the distorting force, since the magnetic flux lines contain elastic potential energy, will the flux lines behave like a slinky, ie move backwards and forwards (oscillate) across the original steady state line until coming to rest?
 
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chazemz said:
Changing the spring to a magnetic field. If I have a horseshoe magnet and distort the magnetic field between the poles. If I suddenly remove the distorting force, since the magnetic flux lines contain elastic potential energy, will the flux lines behave like a slinky, ie move backwards and forwards (oscillate) across the original steady state line until coming to rest?

I think they'll just return to their original position without an oscillation, but I'm not sure. I also think this will set up an EM wave that propagates outwards from the spacecraft .
 
chazemz said:
Changing the spring to a magnetic field. If I have a horseshoe magnet and distort the magnetic field between the poles. If I suddenly remove the distorting force, since the magnetic flux lines contain elastic potential energy, will the flux lines behave like a slinky, ie move backwards and forwards (oscillate) across the original steady state line until coming to rest?
It all depends on the details of the mechanical arrangement. I am not sure exactly what you had in mind but 'in principle'. If there is some restraint on the magnet and the magnetic object it is attracting then you could either have the situation of a spring in which the coils are all in contact when it's unloaded, in which case the load will just hit the end stop, the ship will move back to its original position. If the rest position for the magnetic arrangement will allow the magnet to move both sides of it (as with a spring where the coils are not touching when relaxed) then you could have some harmonic motion but EM radiation causes it to decay (slowly) The ship would also move but, of course, the displacement would be inversely proportional to the relative masses of sprung mass and ship. The position of the CM will not ever change as a result of these activities.
 
sophiecentaur said:
It all depends on the details of the mechanical arrangement. I am not sure exactly what you had in mind but 'in principle'. If there is some restraint on the magnet and the magnetic object it is attracting then you could either have the situation of a spring in which the coils are all in contact when it's unloaded, in which case the load will just hit the end stop, the ship will move back to its original position. If the rest position for the magnetic arrangement will allow the magnet to move both sides of it (as with a spring where the coils are not touching when relaxed) then you could have some harmonic motion but EM radiation causes it to decay (slowly) The ship would also move but, of course, the displacement would be inversely proportional to the relative masses of sprung mass and ship. The position of the CM will not ever change as a result of these activities.
Sorry, I have started this all wrong. Please ignore the spacecraft . What I am trying to understand is what will happen to the field flux lines between the stator poles of a dc motor when the load is suddenly withdrawn.
When load is applied to the motor, armature reaction means that the stator flux lines will distort. If this load is suddenly taken away, will the flux lines simply return to the no load position or will they distort slightly on the other side? If they just shorten, will they cause an effect on the stator (apply a force) since there must be a release of energy?
 

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