Starship tests: SN15 flight early May

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the testing and flight attempts of SpaceX's Starship SN5, including static fire tests, hop attempts, and subsequent developments related to SN6 and SN8. Participants explore the technical aspects of the prototypes, the challenges faced during tests, and the implications for future flights. The scope includes experimental and technical reasoning regarding rocket development and testing procedures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that SpaceX does not have a public test plan, but they require road closures for engine tests, which must be announced in advance.
  • There are discussions about the static fire tests and the planned hop attempts, with some participants expressing uncertainty about potential delays or cancellations.
  • Several participants report on the successful completion of static fire tests and the anticipation of hop attempts, while others mention the challenges faced during these tests, such as automatic aborts due to technical issues.
  • Speculation arises regarding the design of SN5, including its single Raptor engine placement and its impact on flight stability.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the hop attempts, including the need for repairs and upgrades before future flights, as well as the potential for multiple shorter hops before higher altitude flights.
  • There are observations about the launch pad's condition and the damage caused during tests, with some participants questioning the robustness of the engines and the overall launch process.
  • Discussion includes updates on SN6 and SN8, with mentions of static fire tests and plans for future flights, including a request for a 20 km flight permission.
  • Some participants express excitement about the progress being made, while others raise concerns about the timeline and technical challenges ahead.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of excitement and skepticism regarding the testing process and timelines. While there are shared observations about the progress and challenges, no consensus is reached on the implications of the tests or the reliability of the prototypes.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of a formal test plan from SpaceX, uncertainty surrounding the timing of future flights, and the preliminary nature of the prototypes being tested. Discussions also highlight the evolving design and engineering challenges faced by SpaceX.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in aerospace engineering, rocket development, and experimental testing processes may find this discussion relevant and informative.

  • #61
As far as I know yes, at least their main parts. They are "dumb" metal parts that just need the right shape, not much Boca Chica would do with them.

The last road closure was cancelled. New road closures for the 28th to 30th.

Musk tweeted a first Super Heavy hop is a few months away. Add almost inevitable delays and we are looking at the second half of 2021. By that time SpaceX should have more experience flying Starship - going from a hop to a high altitude flight for the booster might be relatively fast. Orbital flights are an entirely different thing, however.
 
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  • #62
Short static fire of SN9.

Airspace restrictions exist for Jan 8, 9, and 10, these are possible flight dates. The plan is a repetition of the SN8 test, just with a safe landing this time.
 
  • #63
SpaceX's Starship SN9 prototype fires up rocket engines three times in one day
Just ~1.5 hours between the tests each. It's not fast reuse yet, but it's one step towards it.

There are airspace restrictions January 14, 15 and 16 as possible flight dates.
https://tfr.faa.gov/tfr_map_ims/html/cc/scale6/tile_17_31.html


No earlier than Jan 19: https://everydayastronaut.com/starship-sn9-10-kilometer-flight/
Two Raptor engines need to be exchanged. There is a flight restriction for Jan 18 but it's almost certain that day will be used for another static fire test (or more than one).
 
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  • #64
Fifth static fire test, with replaced engines.

Flight restrictions exist for 25th, 26th, 27th (Monday to Wednesday).

There are also smaller low altitude flight restrictions before, its purpose is unclear. There is a test tank "SN 7.2" near the launch site, maybe they'll test that. It cannot fly but it can launch debris high up in the air if it explodes.
 
  • #65
Boca Chica village is being evacuated at 8 am on Thursday morning for Starship SN9's test flight.
Time zone conversion: 8 am is 5 hours 15 minutes after my post.
The flight could be planned for any time during the day, but the afternoon is the most likely time.

Test announcement at the SpaceX website - the livestream will be added there, too. LabPadre and Everyday Astronaut will be streaming much earlier and keep viewers updated on tanking and similar preparations.

Edit: Moved by one day, apparently because FAA didn't approve the flight in time.

Another edit: No earlier than February 1
Meanwhile SN10 was moved to the launch site. Here are both in one picture

Apparently something about the SN8 flight violated the FAA approval. The Verge
 
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  • #67
The village near the launch site will be evacuated for a possible SN10 flight attempt tomorrow (March 1).
Tweet
March 2 and 3 are backup dates.

Musk has indicated that they changed the landing procedure. They will try to ignite all three Raptor engines, and then shut down one immediately. If all three ignite that's great, if one of them has a problem then the other two will do the landing.

Edit: No earlier than March 3.
 
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  • #68
It landed!

The landing seemed to be quite rough and Starship looks a bit tilted, but it landed in one piece and didn't explode immediately.

It exploded 10 minutes after landing.

First video is the flight from SpaceX, second video is the explosion coverage from EverydayAstronaut.Edit: Landing legs didn't lock properly.

 
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  • #69
I like Scott Manley's compendium:
 
  • #71
NASA Spaceflight has a longer article about future plans.
  • SN11 could fly this week. Fourth flight to ~10 km, main goal is a safe landing. The flight will end this round of test flights. There are no SN12/13/14.
  • BN1 (first booster, largely assembled) is not expected to fly, it will be used for ground tests after the SN11 flight. BN2 will fly later.
  • SN15-17 come with major upgrades relative to 8-11. They are expected to fly to higher altitudes. SN18/19 might follow or get scrapped based on the progress with the test flights.
  • SN20 on booster B3 is the expected combination for a first orbital flight. The internal target seems to be July 1, but that's an incredibly aggressive timeline and can only work if nothing goes wrong. Nevertheless, an orbital flight this year looks plausible.
  • The first orbital launch pad makes progress and construction of the integration tower (stacking Starship on top of the booster) could start in about one week.

Not in this article: SpaceX purchased two old oil rigs and converts them to launch pads. Asked how rockets would get to the platforms: Musk: They will fly there.
 
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  • #72
SN11 flew but exploded shortly after starting the landing burn - presumably a planned breakup from the flight termination system but that's not clear yet. Heavy fog lead to a lot of confusion what happened.

SpaceX video
Everyday Astronaut coverage
 
  • #73
Apparently SpaceX was responding to Pete Conrad's famous call on Apollo 12 for "more all-weather testing". Why would you launch a test vehicle in the fog?
 
  • #74
new Tweet
Looks like engine 2 had issues on ascent & didn’t reach operating chamber pressure during landing burn, but, in theory, it wasn’t needed.

Something significant happened shortly after landing burn start. Should know what it was once we can examine the bits later today.
Nothing to do with the fog, just made watching the flight harder.

BN1 won't fly but it might be tested on the ground next.

SN15 should be ready soon. It comes with significant upgrades, it has been speculated that it will make higher altitude flights where heating gets relevant. It doesn't have a full heat shield, but that's not needed for now. Getting the landing right will still be the highest priority.
 
  • #75
mfb said:
Nothing to do with the fog, just made watching the flight harder.
Its a test flight. The whole purpose is to watch it. Visible is valuable data. What sane person would launch into that fog?
 
  • #76
Nice pictures are not the purpose of the test. Almost all the test data comes from Starship sensors, the rest will come from inspecting debris. A camera on the ground won't contribute much anyway.

Another update:
SN15 rolls to launch pad in a few days. It has hundreds of design improvements across structures, avionics/software & engine.

Hopefully, one of those improvements covers this problem. If not, then retrofit will add a few more days.
 
  • #77
SN15 has conducted a static fire test (and a second one).
Musk: "preparing for flight later this week"

The flight is expected to mirror the previous four flights in scope, but SN15 is different in many aspects. Design issues found in the SN8-11 flights went into changes for SN15 and up, the second generation of full-scale prototypes.Personal speculation: If SN15 lands softly it will be inspected in detail. In that time I expect SN16 to be prepared for a higher altitude flight - as high as they can fly with three engines, potentially even with 6 engines (using 6 sea-level engines instead of 3 + 3 vacuum ones). SN17 could repeat that flight profile. SN18/19 won't be finished unless some serious design issue comes up. Meanwhile BN2 and the orbital launch pad will be finished and make a test hop or test flight. Add BN3 if needed. The landing mechanism will still evolve, whatever they use to land BN2 will be preliminary.
If the SN16/17 flights are successful and progress with the booster keeps up then SN20 can be put on a booster (BN3 or 4) for an orbital flight attempt. The largest risk will be a loss of all the raptor engines of the booster. They take time to produce.
 
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  • #78
sn15.png


Soft landing. A bit of fire but that was extinguished.
They'll study this one in detail. Maybe we'll see it fly again in the future.Edit: Musk: Might try to refly SN15 soon
 
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