Static Charge Photons: Frequency & Wavelength

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of photons that mediate forces between static charges, specifically focusing on their frequency and wavelength. Participants explore whether these photons are exclusively low frequency or if there exists a distribution of frequencies. Related questions about the bounds of photon frequency are also raised.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the photons mediating static charge interactions are real or merely mathematical constructs, suggesting they have all possible frequencies and speeds as virtual photons.
  • Another participant proposes that the frequency of a virtual photon could be determined by the kinetic energy involved in the interaction of two electrons, using the relation E=hf.
  • A follow-up comment suggests that the momentum of a photon is always larger than its energy, implying it travels faster than light in certain frames of reference, which raises skepticism about the existence of virtual photons.
  • Another participant asserts that the electromagnetic force is transmitted at the speed of light, indicating that some form of exchange occurs at a finite speed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the reality of virtual photons and their properties, with no consensus reached regarding their existence or the implications of their frequency and speed.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention unresolved questions regarding the lower and upper bounds of photon frequency, indicating a lack of clarity on these aspects.

ObsessiveMathsFreak
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What is the frequency/wavelength of the photons which mediates the forces between static charges? Are they exclusively low frequency photons, or is there a distribution of some kind? Also, in a slightly related question, is there a lower bound for photon frequency?
 
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… where's my flak jacket … ?

Hi ObsessiveMathsFreak! :smile:

'spect I'll get shot down for this, but …

I think they're just in mathematicians' imaginations … they help to simplify the perturbative expansion of the field … they have all possible frequencies and speeds … they're virtual photons, and virtual means not real, so they don't exist!
​
:redface: … runs for cover … :redface:​
 
Wouldn't it depend on the energy that is actually exchanged in the interaction? For example, I think you could just determine the kinetic energy involved in the "collision" of two electrons, depending on their momentum, and using E=hf find the frequency of the virtual photon involved. Am I wrong?

Also, in a slightly related question, is there a lower bound for photon frequency?
I've wondered this myself, or rather, wondered about the opposite question - is there an upper bound? Would it be a photon with a wave length equal to a Planck length? That'd be a very high energy photon!
 
peter0302 said:
For example, I think you could just determine the kinetic energy involved in the "collision" of two electrons, depending on their momentum, and using E=hf find the frequency of the virtual photon involved. Am I wrong?

Yes, you can do that - and the momentum of the photon is always larger than its energy, which means it's always faster than light.

In fact, in the centre-of-mass frame of reference, the photon travels infinitely fast (I think this is why people talk of the "exchange" of a photon)!

(Though I don't know how you'd work out the frequency. :confused:)

Another reason for my not believing in them! :smile:
 
And yet we do know that the EM force is transmitted _at_ the speed of light. So there is indeed something that is exchanged at a finite speed.
 

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