Stern-gerlach with hydrogen atoms

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of a neutral beam of hydrogen atoms in a strong non-constant magnetic field, specifically addressing how many ways the beam will split based on the spins of the electron and proton. Participants explore the implications of magnetic moments and the contributions of individual particles to the overall magnetic behavior of the atom.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the beam of hydrogen atoms splits into 2 rather than 3 cases, suggesting that both the electron and proton spins should be considered.
  • Another participant points out that the magnetic moments of the electron and proton differ significantly, with one being negligible.
  • Concerns are raised about the formula for magnetic moment, particularly regarding the mass term and whether the mass of the hydrogen atom can be used instead of the individual masses of the electron and proton.
  • Some participants argue that the system has a total magnetic moment that is the sum of contributions from both the electron and proton, emphasizing the importance of magnetic moment over spin in magnetic interactions.
  • It is noted that the magnetic effect on the electron is much larger than the interaction between the electron and proton, suggesting that they may not be treated as a single system in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to account for the spins and magnetic moments of the electron and proton, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions made about the magnetic moments and the treatment of the hydrogen atom as a single system versus its constituent particles.

cragar
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I was looking through a physics book that has the answers in the back.
this is not homework. It asks about a neutral beam of hydrogen atoms going into a strong non-constant B field. It asks how many ways will the beam split. It says the answer is 2.
Why is the answer not 3. spin 1, spin 0, spin -1. if we consider the spin of the proton and the spin of the electron. we should have 3 cases. both spin up, both spin down, and then opposite spins.
 
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Compare the magnetic moments of electron and proton. One of them is negligible.
 
I see the formula for the the magnetic moment has the mass in the denominator, so it will be a lot smaller for the proton. But why can't I consider the magnetic moment of the whole atom and for the mass term use the mass of the hydrogen atom. Because the electron and proton are one connected system.
 
Because the electron and proton are one connected system.
Yes, and the system has one spin, but this spin is the sum of two parts - a large part and a tiny part.
 
I would say rather that the system has a total magnetic moment, which is the sum of a large part (from the electron) and a small part (from the proton). For magnetic interactions, what directly matters is the magnetic moment, not the spin. The magnetic moment of a particle depends on the spin, of course, but it also depends on other factors.
 
cragar said:
I see the formula for the the magnetic moment has the mass in the denominator, so it will be a lot smaller for the proton. But why can't I consider the magnetic moment of the whole atom and for the mass term use the mass of the hydrogen atom. Because the electron and proton are one connected system.

Magnetic effect on the electron is much larger than the magnetic interaction between the electron and proton. Consequently, the electron and proton are no longer one system.
 

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