Still not on a good start for Gen Chem 1 lab....

[JoeyCentral]

Honestly, I have made this observation more than enough times to conclude that good handwriting is a trait inherited to females while the males are the ones with the bad handwriting. I was raised by a father who was very masculine, but he had very bad handwriting. Like, not even he could read his own handwriting. So if you think my handwriting is bad, then you obviously never seen his lol. I guess it has to do with the nurturing nature of females and them being more detail-oriented that makes them better with penmanship than males. Personally, I would much rather just type than handwrite nowadays. Once I get out of school, chances are, the only thing I will ever have to handwrite is my signature and checks. This is the 21st century, so everything is done and written by typing. With that said ,I am not going to go through the trouble of improving my handwriting just so I can make my work prettier when professors grade based on a student's understanding of material than their handwriting (unless you were in a class that taught you handwriting that is xD).

I mean, God made us all different and gave us different strengths and weaknesses. Instead of diverging precious time to fixing something that isn't meant to be fixed, I will just embrace the fact I have bad handwriting and move on to more important matters, such as improving my understanding of chemistry, physics, mathematics, engineering, etc.

 

[Vanadium 50]

With that said ,I am not going to go through the trouble of improving my handwriting just so I can make my work prettier when professors grade based on a student's understanding of material than their handwriting

If your handwriting is so terrible you can't tell a 5 from a 9, this is a problem. If you refuse to fix this, it will remain a problem.

My handwriting is bad. My father's was bad. My solution? I print. I don't whitesplain how bad handwriting - and my refusal to take steps to better communicate with others - has some sort of moral equivalence to institutional racism. And, by the way, this will not go over well at Berkeley. You might think about abandoning it.

 

[JoeyCentral]

Abandoning what? Bad handwriting? So you are telling me everyone at Berkeley has pretty handwriting? I am sorry, but I doubt they all have the prettiest handwriting. I really have no idea what you are talking about nor do I see any clear connections between my admissions chances at UC Berkeley and my handwriting. Could you please elaborate your point?

 

[micromass]

Abandoning what? Bad handwriting? So you are telling me everyone at Berkeley has pretty handwriting? I am sorry, but I doubt they all have the prettiest handwriting. I really have no idea what you are talking about nor do I see any clear connections between my admissions chances at UC Berkeley and my handwriting. Could you please elaborate your point?

It has nothing to do with admission chances. It has to do with general attitude. Of course I don't know much about you, but comparing bad handwriting to racism is not a kind of attitude I expect of somebody who is successful at Berkeley.

 

[Student100]

To be the best, you have to learn from the best, and in the case of academics, the best would be the asians.

My handwriting is inherited by my father. Some people are born with good handwriting while others aren't. It is not fair to say that I am not trying to excel just because of my handwriting. That is like saying a black person should stop having black skin in order to succeed in physics.

Abandoning what? Bad handwriting? So you are telling me everyone at Berkeley has pretty handwriting? I am sorry, but I doubt they all have the prettiest handwriting. I really have no idea what you are talking about nor do I see any clear connections between my admissions chances at UC Berkeley and my handwriting. Could you please elaborate your point?

If engineering doesn't work out, I would steer clear of politics if I were you.

They're trying to help show you that your attitude isn't one successful people tend to have. You aren't effectively taking their criticism to heart. Instead, you're making some off the wall comments and excuses.

Handwriting's bad? Got it. I'll try to fix it.

Lab work is sloppy? Got it.I'll try to fix it.

I also have this problem with x. Oh doing y might help x? Got it. I'll try to fix it.

That's how successful people- like the students at Berkeley- tend to process criticism we assume.

Instead of continuing to seek constructive criticism, you're making excuses and explaining away the handwriting by comparing it to the color of people's skin. You haven't advanced the conversation since then. Now they're warning you that this isn't going to make you a successful student.

 

[JoeyCentral]

Look, I love minorities, alright? I even considered minoring in Asian studies because my love for their culture is that genuine. I did this for two reasons; because I truly love Asian society and its people, and to prove I am not a racist. I seriously don't know how many additional steps I must take to prove I am not racist. Look, I am sorry if comparing racism to bad handwriting was offensive, but I am just trying to make a point, which is that handwriting is not really a skill that one can improve on. I can make my handwriting look a little bit neater in terms of positioning and size, but I cannot make it look very pretty.

Like I said, I love Asians, and there is nothing in the world worse than making any kind of offensive or racist remarks towards them or anybody else. In fact, I consider myself Asian even though I was born caucasian, that is how radical I have become. If I was racist, then I would be claiming whites are superior to everyone else, which is totally opposite of what I believe.

Look, I really think we have went off-topic here to an extreme degree. I mainly posted this because I thought that I really did get a 74 on my last lab, but fortunately, it was just a slight misconception and misunderstandings. I even welcome criticism in terms of how I can improve my lab writings, and I have taken almost every single one of them to heart because like I said, I want to improve. However, I just think it is silly to say that I need pretty handwriting in order to succeed. I agree that writing a little neater and properly spacing out my paper for data writing is an important factor, but to totally change my handwriting just because it is not pretty is too demanding. That is the only criticism I am objecting to here out of all.

Just to let everyone know, I am not trying to be a smart-a** in any way, shape, or form, nor am I self-deluding myself into thinking I am perfect. I know I that I have areas to work in and I appreciate every bit of constructive criticism posted by everyone on here who has taken the time to look at my work and tell me what I need to work on. Please know that you have my gratitude.

 

[micromass]

So first of all, racism is not necessarily whites claiming to be superior. It can also be asians claiming to be superior. So you saying that asians are the best because they're asian, that is a racist statement.
Anyway, we're not trying to tell you that you're racist. Racism is pretty irrelevant here. What we're trying to tell you is that you're making excuses for things instead of changing them. And comparing racism to bad handwriting might not be a racist statement, but it is not the kind of quality statement a Berkeley student would tend to make.

 

[JoeyCentral]

Alright. Then please tell me what kind of statement a Berkeley student would make, so I can learn to be like them? Like I said, I shouldn't have made that comparison and it was wrong. I mean, I don't know what the Berkeley mindset would be and how the students there think. But I really want to think like a Berkeley student, so what are the first couple of steps I can take to be like them?

 

[micromass]

I think Student100's post 35 is spot on.

 

[JoeyCentral]

Right. Well, I do have that mentality obviously, since if I didn't, then I wouldn't be here asking how I can improve on my lab. I am trying to fix it, but without orientation or guidance, how can I improve it? There is a difference between a modest attitude of saying, "Yeah, I'll work on it" and not working on it, and someone who says they will work on it and actually works on it. I have that mentality, hence why I am working hard to fix my lab right now. So in a sense, according to Student100's post, I do have the Berkeley attitude already. I do not try to make excuses for my failures. A person who does that never succeeds in life, and they spend the rest of their lives telling others that they could have been big in life. I am not that. I spent about half of my entire life reflecting upon failure and learning from it. Had I not done that, then I wouldn't be where I am today.

Look, once again, I understand that was not a good comparison. But aside from that, what other criticism did I really object to other than handwriting? I sacrificed everything to improve to being a good student. I sacrificed video games, socializing in non-EC's at school, and pretty much dedicated all of my time to school both in and outside the classrooms. Even though it is hard to see it, I do have the mentality that Student100 mentioned. Sometimes, I just make poor decisions that end up making others believe otherwise. I try to minimize it and I have done a good job at doing so.

 

[symbolipoint]

That is one of the worst comparisons I've heard so far. But hey, we gave you constructive advice, whether or not you accept that is your thing.

Not really. Some people are left-handed; some people are right-handed; a few people are unhanded. Why some people exhibit poor handwriting, ... someone else understands this better than we.

 

[micromass]

Not really. Some people are left-handed; some people are right-handed; a few people are unhanded. Why some people exhibit poor handwriting, ... someone else understands this better than we.

Again: everybody is able to pull off nice or at least readable handwriting if he really wants to.

 

[symbolipoint]

JoeyCentral said:

This is the 21st century, so everything is done and written by typing. With that said ,I am not going to go through the trouble of improving my handwriting just so I can make my work prettier when professors grade based on a student's understanding of material than their handwriting (unless you were in a class that taught you handwriting that is xD).

That just means you are not willing to communicate effectively, so that a professor or someone else could understand your works.

 

[JoeyCentral]

Honestly, I have never had a problem with handwriting in the past before to the point in where instructors did not understand it. I can slow down a little bit and make it more "neat", but other than that, I cannot change my handwriting the same way a word processor can change the character's fonts. However, if we had to prioritize what is more important, would you place pretty handwriting or doing the homework and reading of course materials to stay ahead at the top of the priority list? If I was on break and I had absolutely nothing to do, then I might try to better improve my handwriting by doing some online research. Other than that, though, pretty handwriting alone isn't going to get me A's. Trust me, I've seen girls before in the past with the prettiest handwriting in the world, get C's or D's back on their tests. I understand both have their benefits, but in a world as fast paced as the one we live in now, we need to sort out priorities, which means we have to choose one or the other.

 

[micromass]

However, if we had to prioritize what is more important, would you place pretty handwriting or doing the homework and reading of course materials to stay ahead at the top of the priority list?

Berkeley students are able to do both.

 

[JoeyCentral]

Berkeley students are able to do both.

Well, I guess I'll be an exceptional Berkeley student then.

 

[micromass]

Well, I guess I'll be an exceptional Berkeley student then.

See, you're not even willing to try. You either just give up or make excuses. That is what makes you unfit for Berkeley.

 

[JoeyCentral]

See, you're not even willing to try. You either just give up or make excuses. That is what makes you unfit for Berkeley.

Because writing by hand is an outdated skill. They don't even teach it in kindergarten anymore. Besides, I know people in Berkeley. Not once did ANY of the students tell me that you need fancy handwriting. In fact, I was told by tutors in my academic center that my handwriting was actually decent. As long as it is readable, then it is good. So for you to tell me I am unfit for Berkeley, when I doubt you have even been on the campus (I have btw and made friends with a lot of students there), and you are annoying me right now by telling me something you clearly have no knowledge of. So don't tell me I am unfit for Berkeley when I have friends who actually go there and I am fairly certain they know more about Berkeley than you do.

At Berkeley college? Sure. I hear they have an excellent interior design program: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/berkeley-college-7394

No. UC Berkeley.

http://www.berkeley.edu/

 

[Student100]

Well, I guess I'll be an exceptional Berkeley student then.

At Berkeley college? Sure. I hear they have an excellent interior design program: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/berkeley-college-7394

 

[symbolipoint]

Honestly, I have never had a problem with handwriting in the past before to the point in where instructors did not understand it. I can slow down a little bit and make it more "neat", but other than that, I cannot change my handwriting the same way a word processor can change the character's fonts. However, if we had to prioritize what is more important, would you place pretty handwriting or doing the homework and reading of course materials to stay ahead at the top of the priority list? If I was on break and I had absolutely nothing to do, then I might try to better improve my handwriting by doing some online research. Other than that, though, pretty handwriting alone isn't going to get me A's. Trust me, I've seen girls before in the past with the prettiest handwriting in the world, get C's or D's back on their tests. I understand both have their benefits, but in a world as fast paced as the one we live in now, we need to sort out priorities, which means we have to choose one or the other.

Those students (no matter if males or females) with nice handwriting but mediocre or worse grades are EASIER TO HELP, because the grader can clearly find what such students understand and what not understand - because they are communicating well with neat handwriting. TRUST ME ON THIS!

 

[symbolipoint]

JoelCentral tells us:

Because writing by hand is an outdated skill. They don't even teach it in kindergarten anymore. Besides, I know people in Berkeley. Not once did ANY of the students tell me that you need fancy handwriting.

Handwriting will NEVER be an outdated skill. It is taught in all elementary schools, everywhere. Handwriting includes printing of the characters with pen and pencil on paper, or other receiving/display device (chalkboard, dry erase board felt marker or chalk).

 

[JoeyCentral]

Like I said, I cannot help what I was born with. I was never really taught to write in pre-k or elementary school (I forgot what they even taught me). I was always told by my father that handwriting skills was not important since computers write nicer than all of us. I can understand how it is important in an educational environment, but for engineering or sciences? I just don't know how I can improve it because I was never taught in school how to write fancy.

 

[Mark44]

Like I said, I cannot help what I was born with.

When you were born you couldn't speak or read, but you learned how, right? These were not skills you were born with, but over time you became competent. I believe it's the same with handwriting, at least to the point of writing legibly. If you practice it, you get better at it.

I was never really taught to write in pre-k or elementary school (I forgot what they even taught me). I was always told by my father that handwriting skills was not important since computers write nicer than all of us.

Do you believe 100% of what your father says? Engineers are pretty famous for jotting ideas on the back of napkins or envelopes. If your writing is so attrocious it can't be deciphered (as has been mentioned in this thread), that's a problem, no matter what your father says.

I can understand how it is important in an educational environment, but for engineering or sciences? I just don't know how I can improve it because I was never taught in school how to write fancy.

I did a search for "improve your handwriting" and found many links. Here are just a few. Apparently not everyone believes that writing skills are inherently determined at birth.
http://www.wikihow.com/Improve-Your-Handwriting
http://paperpenalia.com/handwriting.html
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/may/11/how-improve-your-handwriting

 

[symbolipoint]

Like I said, I cannot help what I was born with. I was never really taught to write in pre-k or elementary school (I forgot what they even taught me). I was always told by my father that handwriting skills was not important since computers write nicer than all of us. I can understand how it is important in an educational environment, but for engineering or sciences? I just don't know how I can improve it because I was never taught in school how to write fancy.

I might be mistaken about telling you it is taught everywhere. In your case, we simply must accept what you say was or wasnot taught to you. Handwriting skill IS IMPORTANT EVERYWHERE. Very few exceptions maybe for physically handicapped people who may then need to use specialized tools. Generally, handwriting is important everywhere - government, education, engineering, science ---- everything involving written/read communication.

You may be stuck with some limitations for how well you can improve your handwriting. Try studying and practice art and drawing. Seriously! If possible, also go through a formal class or course on handwriting. Improving yours may take practice. I mentioned earlier about handedness. If you are left or right handed, that one is the one which you would most likely develop your best manual writing skill/technique.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I sacrificed everything to improve to being a good student. I sacrificed video games...

Knew a guy. He wanted to be a physicist. So he learned English, escaped his home country (with little more than the clothes on his back) leaving his fgamily behind, served an enlistment in the military of that country, and then went to college and ultimately graduate school.

But you sacrificed video games.

Sometimes, I just make poor decisions

I think you're making one now.

 

[JoeyCentral]

I might be mistaken about telling you it is taught everywhere. In your case, we simply must accept what you say was or wasnot taught to you. Handwriting skill IS IMPORTANT EVERYWHERE. Very few exceptions maybe for physically handicapped people who may then need to use specialized tools. Generally, handwriting is important everywhere - government, education, engineering, science ---- everything involving written/read communication.

You may be stuck with some limitations for how well you can improve your handwriting. Try studying and practice art and drawing. Seriously! If possible, also go through a formal class or course on handwriting. Improving yours may take practice. I mentioned earlier about handedness. If you are left or right handed, that one is the one which you would most likely develop your best manual writing skill/technique.

Fair enough. I have been working on my pre-lab today for my chemistry lab, while keeping in mind the thought of having to improve handwriting. So I put effort in it this time. Once I finish up, I will post up a scan and await feedback before making the decision of taking a formal handwriting class. It is very disheartening that I have to go through something that little kids in pre-K go through at my current age.

Knew a guy. He wanted to be a physicist. So he learned English, escaped his home country (with little more than the clothes on his back) leaving his fgamily behind, served an enlistment in the military of that country, and then went to college and ultimately graduate school.

But you sacrificed video games.

But it meant a lot to me when I was young. For someone who grew up with no childhood, it was all I had.

 

[symbolipoint]

Learning to write is at or above first grade; certainly not pre-kindergarden. Certainly learning to write comes at the same time as learning to read. Cursive Writing might be taught in maybe grade three. By your age, you are assumed to already know how to make your letters, digits, and write you you need to say. I am suggesting in addition to learn drawing, which should help develop better how you control the writing device (pencil, pen, brush, marker).

 

[Mark44]

Fair enough. I have been working on my pre-lab today for my chemistry lab, while keeping in mind the thought of having to improve handwriting.

That's the attitude we've been looking for.

So I put effort in it this time. Once I finish up, I will post up a scan and await feedback before making the decision of taking a formal handwriting class.

Nobody said anything about taking a formal class in this. The links I posted, or others you could search for, would be fine, I believe, and would be something you could do on your own at your own pace.

It is very disheartening that I have to go through something that little kids in pre-K go through at my current age.

Lots of kids get all the way through high school and are functionally illiterate and/or are unable to do math at grade level. Some of them decide that's good enough, and some of them suck it up and take care of things.

 

[symbolipoint]

That's the attitude we've been looking for.
Nobody said anything about taking a formal class in this. The links I posted, or others you could search for, would be fine, I believe, and would be something you could do on your own at your own pace.
Lots of kids get all the way through high school and are functionally illiterate and/or are unable to do math at grade level. Some of them decide that's good enough, and some of them suck it up and take care of things.

I suggested a formal class for handwriting. This would be above any kind of pre-k level. At pre-kindergarden, students are very, very young and are just learning how to play with art-type things and how to play with other children. By high school or college stage, one would already know how to write on paper. One could use learning to draw to improve in one's handling of a drawing or writing device like pencil, pen, chalk, marker, brush.

Did we not learn to write with pencil on paper in first grade? Did we have no actual instruction on how to do that?

 

[JoeyCentral]

Well, here is a draft of my pre-lab. This isn't perfect, but I did spend more time with the writing this time. The speed it took for me to write was much slower, however, so jotting down quick notes in my notebook in classes where professors do not repeat what they have said will obviously look much sloppier than actually putting effort. But then again, I can just re-write the notes after class, so it might not be such a big deal. Anyways, I promise not to be too critical on any criticism this time.