Strange invocation of Taylor series

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application and interpretation of Taylor series in the context of Lagrangian mechanics, specifically regarding the approximation of a potential function. Participants explore the differences between standard Taylor series definitions and the specific form presented in a chapter they are studying.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the Taylor expansion presented in the text, noting it does not resemble the standard form they are familiar with.
  • Another participant suggests that the Taylor series can be expanded by considering the argument of the potential function as \(x + \epsilon\).
  • A participant seeks clarification on the first two terms of the Taylor series expansion with a specific variable substitution.
  • Another participant proposes that the derivative definition can be used instead of a Taylor series, emphasizing that as \(\epsilon\) approaches zero, the approximation improves.
  • There is a clarification regarding the interpretation of the derivative, suggesting that \(\frac{dV}{dx}\) should be understood as \(\frac{dV(x + \epsilon)}{dx}\).
  • A participant acknowledges a misunderstanding in their previous comment and confirms that the correct substitution for \(a\) in the Taylor expansion is \(x\).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the necessity of using a Taylor series versus the definition of a derivative. Multiple viewpoints on the interpretation and application of the Taylor series remain present.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the assumptions underlying the Taylor expansion and the implications of using different points of expansion. The discussion also highlights the potential for confusion in variable substitution within the context of Taylor series.

noahcharris
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Hi all,

I was working through a chapter on Lagrangians when I cam across this:

"Using a Taylor expansion, the potential can be approximated as
## V(x+ \epsilon) \approx V(x)+\epsilon \frac{dV}{dx} ##"

Now this looks nothing like any taylor expansion I've seen before. I'm used to

## f(x) = \sum\frac{f^{(i)}(a)(x-a)^i}{i!} ##

What am I missing here?
 
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noahcharris said:
Hi all,

I was working through a chapter on Lagrangians when I cam across this:

"Using a Taylor expansion, the potential can be approximated as
## V(x+ \epsilon) \approx V(x)+\epsilon \frac{dV}{dx} ##"

Now this looks nothing like any taylor expansion I've seen before. I'm used to

## f(x) = \sum\frac{f^{(i)}(a)(x-a)^i}{i!} ##

What am I missing here?
You just need to expand the definition of the Taylor series over the first couple of terms. Remember to account for x + ε as the argument of V(x).
 
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What are the first two terms with a = x + ξ ?
 
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paisiello2 said:
What are the first two terms with a = x + ξ ?

Looks like it's ## f(x) \approx f(x + \epsilon) - f^1(x + \epsilon)\epsilon ##

Oh, ok, I see now. So the ##\frac{dV}{dx}## is really a ##\frac{dV(x + \epsilon)}{dx}## ??
 
You don't even need to use a Taylor series. Just use the definition of a derivative:
\frac{dV}{dx}= \lim_{\epsilon \to 0} \frac{V(x+\epsilon)-V(x)}{\epsilon}
Therefore, for smaller and smaller \epsilon, the above becomes a better and better approximation. The expression from your first post just comes from taking the above equation, dropping the limit, and isolating V(x+\epsilon).
 
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noahcharris said:
Looks like it's ## f(x) \approx f(x + \epsilon) - f^1(x + \epsilon)\epsilon ##

Oh, ok, I see now. So the ##\frac{dV}{dx}## is really a ##\frac{dV(x + \epsilon)}{dx}## ??
Sorry, do what SteamKing suggested but also take a=x as where the approximation is taken from. That should give the same answer.
 
Ok I finally figured it out. I was wrong in my previous comment. ## x \mapsto x + \epsilon ## and ## a = x ##
Thanks everyone.
 

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