Strange Solution to Quadratic Equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a quadratic equation, specifically the equation y² - 4y - 8 = 0, and the implications of manipulating its solutions. Participants explore the validity of different methods for solving the equation and the potential pitfalls associated with taking square roots of squares.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a method of solving the quadratic equation and notes a "strange" solution that arises from manipulating the equation into a different form.
  • Another participant points out a mistake in the reasoning related to taking the square root of a square, emphasizing that \(\sqrt{x^2} = |x|\) rather than simply \(x\).
  • A further contribution discusses the importance of considering cases when taking square roots, suggesting that one must account for both positive and negative scenarios to avoid errors.
  • Some participants highlight the significance of checking solutions against the original equation to ensure they are valid, noting that not all methods yield correct results.
  • There is a mention of similar issues arising in other mathematical contexts, such as inverse functions and domain considerations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of checking solutions and the potential for common mistakes when manipulating equations. However, there is no consensus on the initial method presented or the implications of the "strange" solution.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the implications of square roots and the necessity of considering the domain of solutions. Participants express varying degrees of familiarity with these concepts, indicating a range of assumptions and knowledge levels.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students learning algebra, educators addressing common misconceptions, and anyone interested in the nuances of solving quadratic equations and the implications of mathematical operations.

vikcool812
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a strange solution ?

I was solving a tangent problem and came across a strange thing ,
its a simple quadratic equation ,y2 - 4y -8 = 0 ,
by quadratic formula , y = 2 + 2*31/2 and 2 - 2*31/2 ,

now if i write the same quadratic as (y-2)2 = 12 ,
then i apply square root function on both sides to get y-2 = (12)1/2
NOTE : i have not written +,- in front of root 12 because on left side i have a +ve number as it is a square so then i get the answer y = 2*(3)1/2 + 2
now how can we explain this?
 
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Your mistake is in taking the square root of a square to "undo" it. When x is negative, it is a blatant lie to say \sqrt{x^2} = x. When x is negative, \sqrt{x^2} = -x. Try it out for yourself.

How can you avoid this mistake. Answer: always keep in mind when you root a square. Undoing a square with a root is technically an illegal move unless you know whether x is positive.

How do you legalize this kind of move? You break it into two cases. Draw a vertical line down the middle of your paper. On the left hand side, make the assumption that x is negative. Since every real number must be negative or non-negative, one of the two halves of the paper must logically follow. At the bottom, we get something like y = ... on either side of the page, and those are our solutions.

To illustrate:

y^2 - 4y - 8 = 0
y^2 - 4y + 4 = 12
(y - 2) ^2 = 12

Case 1: Suppose y - 2 \ge 0.

y - 2= \sqrt{12}
y = \sqrt{12} + 2

Case 2: Suppose y - 2 < 0.

y - 2= -\sqrt{12} (note the minus sign on the RHS)
y = 2 -\sqrt{12}

So our two possible solutions are y = \sqrt{12} + 2 or y = 2 - \sqrt{12}.

This is probably the most common mistake every single student of algebra makes.
 
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Or: \sqrt{x^2}= |x|, not just "x".
 


It helps to remember that "a solution" does not mean the result of your solving process but a value that makes the original equation true.

This is why we teachers keep harping on "check your answers!". Some mistakes are of the 2+2=5 variety but others are more subtle like this case where you are using a method outside the simpler context in which you originally learned it.

This issue comes up again and again e.g. inverse sine of sine of 7pi/2, and anti-derivatives in calculus. Anytime you are using an inverse function or inverse operation you want to "go on yellow alert" and pay close attention to domain issues.
 


jambaugh said:
Anytime you are using an inverse function or inverse operation you want to "go on yellow alert" and pay close attention to domain issues.

Exactly =-) Even for something as common-place as division... remember division doesn't *always* undo multiplication. 2 * 0 / 0 is NOT 2!
 


jambaugh said:
It helps to remember that "a solution" does not mean the result of your solving process but a value that makes the original equation true.
I once had a student who complained bitterly that I marked his answer wrong on a test just because he used the "method he learned in high school" rather than the method I taught him. I don't think I was ever able to convince him that I marked him wrong because his answer did not satisfy the equation!
 

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