Summation Index Notation in the Transformation Equations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of summation index notation in transformation equations as presented in a specific textbook on classical dynamics. Participants are questioning the reasoning behind the use of multiple indices in summation and seeking clarification on the physical interpretation of a particular equation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the authors sum over two indices ##j## and ##k## in Equation (7.118) instead of just one index ##j##, seeking clarity on the introduction of the index ##k##.
  • Another participant requests examples of summations involving both indices, specifically calculating $$\sum_j q_j^2$$ and $$\sum_{j,k} q_j q_k$$, to illustrate the concept.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the necessity of using two indices instead of one, despite having expanded the summations.
  • There is a repeated inquiry about the physical interpretation of Equation (7.121), with one participant noting that the interpretation is provided in the text preceding the equation.
  • Another participant asks for the specific wording from the book that explains the physical interpretation for those who do not have access to it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to share a common interest in understanding the summation indices and the physical interpretation of the equation, but there is no consensus on the reasoning behind the use of multiple indices or the interpretation of the equation itself. The discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific equations and terms from the textbook, indicating that their understanding is dependent on the definitions and context provided in the book, which may not be fully accessible to all participants.

sams
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In Chapter 7: Hamilton's Principle, in the Classical Dynamics of Particles and Systems book by Thornton and Marion, Fifth Edition, page 258-259, we have the following equations:

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1. Upon squaring Equation (7.117), why did the authors in the first term of Equation (7.118) are summing over two indices ##j## and ##k##, and not over ##j## only? In other words, where did the index ##k## come from? Why do we add sometimes a new index and when do we do that?

2. What is the physical interpretation of Equation (7.121)?
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Thanks a lot!
 

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sams said:
why did the authors in the first term of Equation (7.118) are summing over two indices ##j## and ##k##, and not over ##j## only? In other words, where did the index ##k## come from? Why do we add sometimes a new index and when do we do that?

2. What is the physical interpretation of Equation (7.121)?
View attachment 232606
Thanks a lot![/QUOTE]

As easy examples, calculate
$$\sum_j q_j^2$$
and
$$\sum_{j,k} q_j q_k$$
where both ##j## and ##k## run from 1 to 3.

sams said:
What is the physical interpretation of Equation (7.121)?

The physical interpretation of (7.121) is given in the words just before the equation.
 
George Jones said:
As easy examples, calculate
$$\sum_j q_j^2$$
and
$$\sum_{j,k} q_j q_k$$
where both ##j## and ##k## run from 1 to 3.

Thank you for your reply. Yes, I expanded the summations. The first one leads to three terms and the second one to nine terms, but I still did not get it why should we use two indices instead of one index!
 
George Jones said:
2. What is the physical interpretation of Equation (7.121)?
The physical interpretation of (7.121) is given in the words just before the equation.
For those of us who don't have the book, would you mind telling us what the words say, or showing. Thanks.
 
Carpe Physicum said:
For those of us who don't have the book, would you mind telling us what the words say, or showing. Thanks.
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