Supremum, Infimum (Is my proof correct?)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the relationship between the infimum of a set of real numbers and the supremum of its negation. Specifically, the original poster is tasked with demonstrating that if a nonempty set \( A \) is bounded below, then the infimum of \( A \) is equal to the negative of the supremum of the set \( -A \), which consists of the negated elements of \( A \).

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to prove the statement by starting with the definition of supremum and establishing that the negation of the supremum corresponds to a lower bound of \( A \). Some participants question the initial assumptions and suggest an alternative approach by defining \( \alpha \) as the infimum of \( A \) instead. Others explore the implications of \( A \) being bounded below and how that affects the boundedness of \( -A \).

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the proof structure, with some providing feedback on the original poster's reasoning. There is a suggestion to first establish that \( -A \) is bounded above before proceeding with the proof. The discussion reflects a mix of attempts to clarify definitions and explore different proof strategies without reaching a consensus on the best approach yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of understanding the definitions of supremum and infimum, as well as the implications of boundedness for both \( A \) and \( -A \). There is an acknowledgment of the original poster's inexperience with proofs, which may influence the clarity and structure of their argument.

Incand
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Homework Statement


Let ##A## be a nonempty set of real numbers which is bounded below. Let ##-A## be the set of all numbers ##-x##, where ##x \in A##. Prove that
##\inf A = -\sup(-A)##.

Homework Equations


Definition:
Suppose ##S## is an ordered set, ##E\subset S##, and ##E## is bounded above. Suppose there exists an ##\alpha \in S## with the following properties:
(i) ##\alpha## is an upper bound of ##E##.
(ii) If ##\gamma < \alpha## then ##\gamma## is not an upper bound of ##E##.
Then ##\alpha## is called the supremum of ##E## and we write ##\alpha = \sup E##.
(Equivalently for infimum)

The Attempt at a Solution


From the definition of supremum ##\exists \alpha > y, \forall y \in -A## or equivalently ##\exists \alpha > -x, \forall x \in A##.
Then ##-\alpha < x, \forall x \in A##, hence ##-\alpha = -\sup(-A)## is a lower bound of ##A##.

It's left to show that if ##\gamma > -\alpha## then ##\gamma## is not an lower bound of ##A##.
Suppose ##\gamma## is a lower bound of ##A## with ##\gamma > -\alpha##. Then ##\gamma < x \forall x\in A## or equivalently ##-\gamma > -x \forall x \in A##. But this means that ##\gamma## is an upper bound of ##-A## and since ##\sup(-A) = \alpha## we have that ##-\gamma \ge \alpha## or equivalently ##\gamma \le -\alpha## a contradiction! Hence ##\inf A = -\sup(-A)##.

Is the above correct? Anything I could do to improve it? I'm quite new to proofs so I'm not sure if I'm doing this right.
 
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Incand said:

Homework Statement


Let ##A## be a nonempty set of real numbers which is bounded below. Let ##-A## be the set of all numbers ##-x##, where ##x \in A##. Prove that
##\inf A = -\sup(-A)##.

Homework Equations


Definition:
Suppose ##S## is an ordered set, ##E\subset S##, and ##E## is bounded above. Suppose there exists an ##\alpha \in S## with the following properties:
(i) ##\alpha## is an upper bound of ##E##.
(ii) If ##\gamma < \alpha## then ##\gamma## is not an upper bound of ##E##.
Then ##\alpha## is called the supremum of ##E## and we write ##\alpha = \sup E##.
(Equivalently for infimum)

The Attempt at a Solution


From the definition of supremum ##\exists \alpha > y, \forall y \in -A## or equivalently ##\exists \alpha > -x, \forall x \in A##.
Then ##-\alpha < x, \forall x \in A##, hence ##-\alpha = -\sup(-A)## is a lower bound of ##A##.

It's left to show that if ##\gamma > -\alpha## then ##\gamma## is not an lower bound of ##A##.
Suppose ##\gamma## is a lower bound of ##A## with ##\gamma > -\alpha##. Then ##\gamma < x \forall x\in A## or equivalently ##-\gamma > -x \forall x \in A##. But this means that ##\gamma## is an upper bound of ##-A## and since ##\sup(-A) = \alpha## we have that ##-\gamma \ge \alpha## or equivalently ##\gamma \le -\alpha## a contradiction! Hence ##\inf A = -\sup(-A)##.

Is the above correct? Anything I could do to improve it? I'm quite new to proofs so I'm not sure if I'm doing this right.
Maybe I'm nitpicking, but it seems that you set ##\alpha=-\sup(-A)##, and then prove that ##-\alpha=\inf A##.
Shouldn't it be the other way around? You are given that ##A## is bounded below, meaning ##\inf A## exists. Set ##\alpha=\inf A## and prove that ##\alpha = -\sup(-A)##.
Or, you could do it as you did, but then first prove that if ##A## has a lower bound, ##-A## has an upper bound.
 
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Good point! I'm going to go with trying to prove that ##-A## have an upper bound. It seemed easier to start on the more complicated side.
##A## is bounded below, that is ##\exists \xi \in \mathbf R## such that ##\xi < x, \forall x\in A##. But this means that ##-\xi > -x, \forall x\in A## that is ##-\xi > y, \forall y \in -A##, hence ##-A## is bounded above since ##-\xi \in \mathbf R##.

If I put that in before the start of my earlier proof, would that do it?

Edit: I'm also using the proposition that
If ##x<0## and ##y<z## then ##xy>xz##
And others, but I guess I don't have to write thing like this out for every step.
 
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Looks fine.
 
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