Surface waves and vorticity in 2D

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the behavior of surface waves and vorticity in two-dimensional fluid dynamics, specifically exploring the implications of removing the irrotational assumption from the classical Korteweg-deVries (KdV) equation. Participants examine the relationship between vorticity and viscosity in the context of wave propagation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the KdV equation and seeks to understand how to modify it to account for vorticity in 2D fluids, questioning the validity of their approach.
  • Another participant suggests that vorticity cannot propagate without viscosity, indicating a potential limitation in the initial assumptions of zero viscosity.
  • A different participant counters that the Euler equations can include vorticity even in the absence of viscosity, although they later clarify that this was a misunderstanding regarding the terminology.
  • There is a repeated assertion that vorticity can be conserved along streamlines in 2D flows without the necessity of viscosity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between vorticity and viscosity, with some asserting that vorticity propagation requires viscosity while others argue that it can exist independently. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these differing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the role of viscosity in the propagation of vorticity and the applicability of the KdV equation when incorporating vorticity. The discussion reflects a lack of consensus on these foundational aspects.

hunt_mat
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TL;DR
How do surface waves change in the presence of vorticity?
The classical free surface profile for the solitary wave for irrotational and incompressible fluids for small amplitude and long wavelength is the classical Korteweg-deVries(KdV) equation given by:\frac{\partial\eta}{\partial t}+\frac{\partial \eta}{\partial x}+\eta\frac{\partial\eta}{\partial x}+\frac{\partial^{3}\eta}{\partial x^{3}}=0
I'm interested in removing the irrrotational aspect of the initial assumptions. The vorticity equation in 2D can be written as:\frac{D\omega}{Dt}=0,\quad\omega=\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}-\frac{\partial u}{\partial y}, ``Combining'' these two equations yields:\frac{D}{Dt}\left(\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}-\frac{\partial u}{\partial y}\right)=0
The full equation is:\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\left(\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}-\frac{\partial u}{\partial y}\right)+u\frac{\partial}{\partial x}\left(\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}-\frac{\partial u}{\partial y}\right)+v\frac{\partial}{\partial y}\left(\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}-\frac{\partial u}{\partial y}\right)=0
From here I can do the usual approximations to get a similar equation to the KdV? Where am I going wrong here?
 
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I've not dived deep into your question but my impression is that vorticity can't propagate without viscosity in the medium. If you effectively are assuming zero viscosity then ... hmmm... I would have to deep dive to speculate further.
 
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That's not true actually. Euler equations (i.e. Navier-Stokes without viscosity) can also contain viscosity. But other than that I don't have an answer here.
 
jambaugh said:
I've not dived deep into your question but my impression is that vorticity can't propagate without viscosity in the medium. If you effectively are assuming zero viscosity then ... hmmm... I would have to deep dive to speculate further.
What you have is that on a given streamline, vorticity is conserved. There are plenty of vorticity solutions in 2D without viscosity.
 
Arjan82 said:
That's not true actually. Euler equations (i.e. Navier-Stokes without viscosity) can also contain viscosity. But other than that I don't have an answer here.
How can Euler's equations contain viscosity?
 
They don't. But they can contain vorticity (my bad.. I see the typo now...)
 

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