Tangent line and points it intersects a curve

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a calculus problem involving the function f(x) = -x4 + 2x2 + 3x. Participants are tasked with finding the tangent line at a specific point, identifying other points of tangency, and determining the intervals of convexity for the function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the calculation of the tangent line at x = 1, the identification of points where the tangent line intersects the curve, and the conditions for convexity based on the second derivative.

Discussion Status

Some participants express confusion regarding the identification of the second point of tangency and the conditions for convexity. Others provide insights into checking which points lie on the tangent line and confirm the conditions for convexity based on the second derivative.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a homework assignment, which may limit the information provided and the methods discussed. There is an emphasis on understanding the relationships between derivatives and the characteristics of the function.

Kaldanis
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This is another question from last year's calculus exam that I'm a bit stuck on.

" Let f be the real function given by f(x) = −x4+2x2+3x.
(a) Determine the tangent line to the curve y = f(x) at x = 1.
(b) Show that the tangent line to the curve y = f(x) at x = 1 is also the tangent line to another point on that curve and find the coordinates of that point.
(c) Find the subset of R on which f is convex. "​
My attempt:

(a) By putting x=1 into the original f(x)= −x4+2x2+3x, I get y=4. So I know the coordinates of this point are (1,4). I also know that f'(x)= -4x3+4x+3. By putting x=1 into this I get the gradient m=3. Putting all this into the line formula I get y-4=3(x-1), which rearranges to y=3x+1.

(b) Since I know the gradient of the line is 3, I just need to find the points where the derivative equals it. So I set -4x3+4x+3=3 and solve. Rearranging I get 4x(1-x2)=0. This only equals 0 when x= 0, 1 or -1. So I think this line is tangent to the points (0,0), (1,4) and (-1,-2). This is where I get confused, the question says there are two points on the curve where the line is tangent to it. I know (1,4) is definitely one, but I have two others to choose from?

(c) I'm pretty stuck on this. Am I right in thinking that if the second derivative is >=0, the function is convex upwards? If that is the case then I have to find when -12x²+4 >= 0? Even if that is the right way I'm having trouble working it out, I'm getting something like when -sqrt(4/12) < x < sqrt(4/12).

Please let me know if I'm along the right lines for 1 and 2 and direct me for 3? :)
 
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Kaldanis said:
(b) Since I know the gradient of the line is 3, I just need to find the points where the derivative equals it. So I set -4x3+4x+3=3 and solve. Rearranging I get 4x(1-x2)=0. This only equals 0 when x= 0, 1 or -1. So I think this line is tangent to the points (0,0), (1,4) and (-1,-2). This is where I get confused, the question says there are two points on the curve where the line is tangent to it. I know (1,4) is definitely one, but I have two others to choose from?
Yes, the slope at those points are the same (m = 3), but besides (1, 4), which point is on the tangent line y = 3x + 1? Part (b) states:
Kaldanis said:
(b) Show that the tangent line to the curve y = f(x) at x = 1 is also the tangent line to another point on that curve and find the coordinates of that point.
 
eumyang said:
Yes, the slope at those points are the same (m = 3), but besides (1, 4), which point is on the tangent line y = 3x + 1? Part (b) states:

Ah okay, so once I know the different coordinates I just check to see which ones are on the tangent line. That means (1,4) and (-1,-2) are the answers. Makes sense, thanks!

What about part c?
 
Yes, the graph is convex when the second derivative is positive. That is, as you say, [itex]-12x^2+ 4\ge 0[/itex]. That is the same as [itex]-12x^2e\ge -4[/itex] and then [itex]x^2\le 1/3[/itex] which is the same as what you give: [itex]-1/\sqrt{3}\le x\le 1/\sqrt{3}[/itex].
 
HallsofIvy said:
Yes, the graph is convex when the second derivative is positive. That is, as you say, [itex]-12x^2+ 4\ge 0[/itex]. That is the same as [itex]-12x^2e\ge -4[/itex] and then [itex]x^2\le 1/3[/itex] which is the same as what you give: [itex]-1/\sqrt{3}\le x\le 1/\sqrt{3}[/itex].

Thanks. This morning I had no idea how to do this question but I'm surprised at how straight forward it is. :)
 

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