Tangent to Parametric Equations

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the equation of the tangent line to a curve defined by the parametric equations x = t - cos t and y = sin t at the point where t = -π/2. Participants are exploring the implications of encountering a 0/0 form when differentiating to find the slope of the tangent.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss substituting the parameter value into the equations to find coordinates and the derivative. There is uncertainty about the nature of the tangent line due to the 0/0 form encountered. Some suggest visualizing the curve through graphing, while others consider algebraic approaches and limits.

Discussion Status

There is ongoing exploration of the problem, with participants offering different perspectives on the existence and nature of the tangent line at the cusp. Some guidance has been provided regarding the use of limits and graphical analysis, but no consensus has been reached on the definition of the tangent line in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants are grappling with the implications of the cusp in the curve and the formal definition of a tangent line, which may vary based on their backgrounds in mathematics or physics. The discussion includes references to specific mathematical concepts such as L'Hôpital's rule and the behavior of derivatives at the cusp.

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Homework Statement


Consider the curve with parametric equations: x = t - cos t, y = sin t.
Determine exactly the equation of the tangent to the curve at the point where t=-0.5pi.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


The equation of a line is y - y1 = m ( x - x1 )
I substituted t = -pi/2 into x and y to get x = -pi/2 and y = -1
Differentiating dy/dx as (dy/dt)/(dx/dt) came out as cos t/1 + sin t
When substituting in for t = -pi/2, I was left with 0/0
From this point, I am unsure what the nature and equation of the tangent would be, as a horizontal line would have 0 as the numerator and a non-0 value as the denominator, and vice versa for a vertical line.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
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What about drawing a graph?
 
I have to solve it algebraically. Plotted the graph on WolframAlpha, doesn't seem to be of any use.
 
If you get 0/0 algebraically, it's still worth looking at the picture (e.g. on this link) to find out why you are in trouble...
Perhaps then you can algebraically compare the limit of the tangent line when coming from the left with idem when coming from the right.
 
Cheers for the link, just had a look at the article. Would this mean that at the cusp, a tangent would not exist or would it simply be a vertical line at x = -pi/2 ?
 
I have no idea of the formal definition of "tangent line" in your context. As a physicist, I would sign off for ##x = -{\pi\over 2}##: the fact that the motion changes direction at that point doesn't bother me.

This link digs in a bit deeper, but I don't get any wiser from it.
 
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Ah fair enough, thank you very much for your help
 
To get a different perspective, you can always apply L'Hopiatal's rule to your 0/0 limit. If you needed to discuss the limits of the derivatives as they approach the time -pi/2.
However, there are infinitely many choices of lines that are tangent to a cusp like that.
 
RUber said:
To get a different perspective, you can always apply L'Hopiatal's rule to your 0/0 limit. If you needed to discuss the limits of the derivatives as they approach the time -pi/2.
However, there are infinitely many choices of lines that are tangent to a cusp like that.
Beg to differ. Left derivative and right derivative "go to" ##-\infty## and ##+\infty##, respectively, but that happens to give the same tangent line.
In the second link I gave (definition 1 page 136 ) that line actually does give the best linear approximation near the cusp. So -- unlike for y = |x| -- there is an argument to claim that ##x=-{\pi\over 2}## is the tangent line.
 
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