Tangent vectors in the coordinate basis

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of tangent vectors in Euclidean three-space for given curves at a specific point. The curves are parameterized by different variables, and the problem involves understanding the relationship between these curves and their tangent vectors in the coordinate basis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the definition of tangent vectors and their representation in terms of derivatives. There is an exploration of how to express the tangent vector in terms of the coordinate basis and unit vectors. Some participants question the equality of coordinate basis vectors and unit vectors in the context of the xyz-coordinate system.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, attempting to clarify concepts and definitions related to tangent vectors and coordinate bases. There is a recognition of the need to understand the implications of the parameterization of curves and how it relates to the tangent vectors at the point of interest.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the definitions and relationships between tangent vectors and coordinate basis vectors, indicating a need for further clarification. The discussion includes references to specific values of parameters at the point of interest, which may influence the calculations being discussed.

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Homework Statement



In Euclidean three-space, let ##p## be the point with coordinates ##(x,y,z)=(1,0,-1)##. Consider the following curves that pass through ##p##:

##x^{i}(\lambda)=(\lambda , (\lambda -1)^{2}, -\lambda)##
##x^{i}(\mu)=(\text{cos}\ \mu , \text{sin}\ \mu , \mu - 1)##
##x^{i}(\sigma)=(\sigma^{2} , \sigma^{3}+\sigma^{2} , \sigma )##

(a) Calculate the components of the tangent vectors to these curves at ##p## in the coordinate basis ##\{\partial_{x},\partial_{y},\partial_{z}\}##.

(b) Let ##f=x^{2}+y^{2}-yz##. Calculate ##\frac{df}{d\lambda}, \frac{df}{d\mu}## and ##\frac{df}{d\sigma}##.

Homework Equations



The Attempt at a Solution


[/B]
My understanding of the concept of tangent vectors and coordinate basis is a little shaky.

I understand that, for a function ##f=f(x^{i}(\lambda))##, the tangent vector is ##\frac{df}{d\lambda}=\frac{dx^{i}}{d\lambda}\frac{df}{dx^{i}}=\frac{dx^{i}}{d\lambda}\partial_{i}f##, where the set of ##\frac{dx^{i}}{d\lambda}## are the components of the tangent vector and the set of ##\partial_{i}## is called the coordinate basis.

I wonder why ##\frac{df}{d\lambda}## is called the tangent vector. Is it because ##\frac{df}{d\lambda}## points along the tangent to the curve ##f(\lambda)##?
 
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In the first case, write:

$$x^1(\lambda)=x=\lambda$$
$$x^2(\lambda)=y=(\lambda-1)^2$$
$$x^3(\lambda)=z=-\lambda$$
In terms of ##\lambda## and ## d\lambda##, what are dx1, dx2, and dx3 along the curve? In terms of the unit vectors in the x, y, and z directions, what is the tangent vector to the curve? In this coordinate system, the coordinate basis vectors are equal to the unit vectors.
 
Chestermiller said:
In the first case, write:

$$x^1(\lambda)=x=\lambda$$
$$x^2(\lambda)=y=(\lambda-1)^2$$
$$x^3(\lambda)=z=-\lambda$$
In terms of ##\lambda## and ## d\lambda##, what are dx1, dx2, and dx3 along the curve? In terms of the unit vectors in the x, y, and z directions, what is the tangent vector to the curve? In this coordinate system, the coordinate basis vectors are equal to the unit vectors.

In terms of ##\lambda## and ##d\lambda##, ##dx^{1}=d\lambda##, ##dx^{2}=2(\lambda -1)d\lambda## and ##dx^{3}=-d\lambda##.

In terms of the unit vectors in the ##x##, ##y##, and ##z## directions, the tangent vector to the curve is ##(1, 2(\lambda - 1), -1)##.

I don't really see how, in the ##xyz##-coordinate system, the coordinate basis vectors are equal to the unit vectors.
 
failexam said:
In terms of ##\lambda## and ##d\lambda##, ##dx^{1}=d\lambda##, ##dx^{2}=2(\lambda -1)d\lambda## and ##dx^{3}=-d\lambda##.

In terms of the unit vectors in the ##x##, ##y##, and ##z## directions, the tangent vector to the curve is ##(1, 2(\lambda - 1), -1)##.

I don't really see how, in the ##xyz##-coordinate system, the coordinate basis vectors are equal to the unit vectors.
failexam said:
In terms of ##\lambda## and ##d\lambda##, ##dx^{1}=d\lambda##, ##dx^{2}=2(\lambda -1)d\lambda## and ##dx^{3}=-d\lambda##.

In terms of the unit vectors in the ##x##, ##y##, and ##z## directions, the tangent vector to the curve is ##(1, 2(\lambda - 1), -1)##.
At the point P, ##\lambda =1##. So...?
I don't really see how, in the ##xyz##-coordinate system, the coordinate basis vectors are equal to the unit vectors.
In ##xyz##, system, a position vector from the origin to an arbitrary point is:
##\vec{s}=x\vec{i}_x+y\vec{i}_y+z\vec{i}_z=x^1\vec{i}_1+x^2\vec{i}_2+x^3\vec{i}_3##
So, what are the partial derivatives of ##\vec{s}## with respect to each of the three coordinates?
 
Chestermiller said:
At the point P, ##\lambda =1##. So...?

At the point ##p##, ##\lambda =1## so that the tangent vector to the curve at ##p## is ##(1,0,-1)##.

Chestermiller said:
In ##xyz##, system, a position vector from the origin to an arbitrary point is:
##\vec{s}=x\vec{i}_x+y\vec{i}_y+z\vec{i}_z=x^1\vec{i}_1+x^2\vec{i}_2+x^3\vec{i}_3##
So, what are the partial derivatives of ##\vec{s}## with respect to each of the three coordinates?

##\partial_{1}\vec{s} = \vec{i}_{1}##, ##\partial_{2}\vec{s} = \vec{i}_{2}## and ##\partial_{3}\vec{s} = \vec{i}_{3}##.

How might this help?
 
failexam said:
At the point ##p##, ##\lambda =1## so that the tangent vector to the curve at ##p## is ##(1,0,-1)##.

##\partial_{1}\vec{s} = \vec{i}_{1}##, ##\partial_{2}\vec{s} = \vec{i}_{2}## and ##\partial_{3}\vec{s} = \vec{i}_{3}##.

How might this help?
The partial derivatives of the position vector with respect to the coordinates are the definition of the coordinate basis vectors. So, the tangent vector is expressible as: $$\vec{t}=+1\vec{i}_1-1\vec{i}_3$$. At least this is the kind of notation I was taught when I was learning this stuff.
 

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