Temperature in quantum systems

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the thermodynamics of quantum systems, specifically focusing on the behavior of quantum harmonic oscillators at zero and finite temperatures. Participants explore how temperature is represented in quantum mechanics and the implications for Hamiltonians and state descriptions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether standard Hamiltonians for quantum systems, such as the harmonic oscillator, are modeled at absolute zero temperature and how temperature can be incorporated into these Hamiltonians.
  • Another suggests studying the quantum harmonic oscillator at zero temperature using wave functions and at finite temperature using density operators, particularly in the context of canonical ensembles.
  • It is proposed that the Hamiltonian remains unchanged regardless of temperature, with the ground state at zero temperature being a Gaussian coherent state, while a finite temperature state is described as a thermal coherent state.
  • Participants discuss the nature of the first excited state at zero temperature, identifying it as a Fock state and noting its energy relative to the ground state.
  • Concerns are raised about the applicability of temperature to Fock states, with some arguing that a Fock state cannot be assigned a meaningful temperature due to its fixed energy.
  • There is mention of the probability distribution for energy eigenstates at a given temperature, suggesting that a Fock state does not correspond to a precise temperature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between Fock states and temperature, with some asserting that Fock states cannot be associated with a meaningful temperature, while others explore the implications of temperature on quantum states without reaching a consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the definitions of temperature in quantum systems and the implications for various states, particularly Fock states and coherent states. The discussion also highlights the complexity of relating Hamiltonians to thermal states.

lfqm
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Hi!

These days I've been studying thermodynamics of quantum systems, and in so a very basic doubt come to me... I hope you guys can help me:

When we study the usual hamiltonians of quantum mechanics (H-atom, harmonic oscillator, etc.)... Are these hamiltonians modeling the system at temperature 0? How can the temperature be adjusted in the hamiltonian?

More concretely: How do I study a quantum harmonic oscillator at temperature 0 and how do I do it at finite temperature?

Thanks!
 
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lfqm said:
How do I study a quantum harmonic oscillator at temperature 0 and how do I do it at finite temperature?
At zero temperature by looking at wave functions (ground states and excited states), at finite temperature by looking at density operators - in the simplest case canonical ensembles.
 
So, the hamiltonian isn't modified?
At 0 temperature I study the usual spectrum of the hamiltonian and at finite temperature I use the density operador given in statistical mechanics?
 
The hamiltonian is the same. At zero temperature the ground state is a gaussian with a minimal width (a coherent state). if you enlarge it, you get the ground state at a finite temperature (it is then a thermal coherent state). If you translate it in the phase space the temperature does not change but you are no more in the vacuum.
Inside a black body you have a thermal coherent state It is well explained in the wiki link.
 
Ok, at 0 tenperature the ground state is a coherent state with Alfa=0... But, the first excited state at 0 temperature is the fock state |1>? i.e. the usual spectrum.
 
As the single-particle Fock state ##|1 \rangle## has a greater energy than the ground state it is an excitation but it is not a thermal coherent state. Have you seen this http://www.iqst.ca/quantech/wiggalery.php ? I am not sure that there is a notion of temperature for this state. You are talking about the first excited state. if you translate the vacuum by a small complex ##\alpha## you get a coherent state with an energy which can be less than the energy of ##|1 \rangle##
I recently discovered this notion of thermal quantum state please correct my eventual errors.
 
naima said:
I am not sure that there is a notion of temperature for this Fock state.

In this old thread
Xepma said:
Let's first focus on the idea of a single particle in a quantum mechanical system which is set at some temperature T. When a system is at some temperature T it means that its energy is not fixed. The particle can sit in each energy eigenstate, and the probability that it does so is given by ##e^{-E/(kT)}/Z##
This would mean that a Fock state with a well defined energy is not at a precise temperature. This is the case with the harmonic oscillator hamiltonian.
 
naima said:
a Fock state with a well defined energy is not at a precise temperature.
Conventionally, Fock states are considered as (excited) zero temperature states. It is impossible to assign it a meaningful nonzero temperature, not even an imprecise one.
 

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