Tensor differentiation. Help with a step.

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The discussion revolves around the confusion regarding tensor differentiation, specifically transitioning from equation (32) to equation (34) in a paper. The user seeks clarification on the appearance of covariant derivatives, as they initially believed "d/dτ" represented a simple derivative while "D/dτ" indicated a covariant derivative. It is clarified that when differentiating a scalar quantity, both ordinary and covariant derivatives yield the same result. The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding the context of tensor operations in general relativity. Ultimately, the distinction between derivative types becomes irrelevant when dealing with scalars.
Sagar_C
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I am not very used to jugglery of tensors...I am learning it all now-a-days...I am trying to read a paper...and stuck at a point..:( ...It will be of great help if someone could help me get at eqn (34) from eqn (32) (cf. attached.) d/d\tau=u^\alpha\partial_\alpha (I think) and semi-colon is for covariant derivative and "[]" are for cyclic permutation of indices just like in Bianci relation.

P.S.: Hope I am not breaking any forum rules as this probably doesn't count as homework.
 

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Sagar_C said:
I am not very used to jugglery of tensors...I am learning it all now-a-days...I am trying to read a paper...and stuck at a point..:( ...It will be of great help if someone could help me get at eqn (34) from eqn (32) (cf. attached.) d/d\tau=u^\alpha\partial_\alpha (I think) and semi-colon is for covariant derivative and "[]" are for cyclic permutation of indices just like in Bianci relation.

P.S.: Hope I am not breaking any forum rules as this probably doesn't count as homework.

Hmm. It doesn't seem to be a very big gap.

If Q is a function of coordinates, then \dfrac{d}{d\tau} Q = \dfrac{dx^{\gamma}}{d\tau} \nabla_{\gamma} Q. So in the particular case Q = w_{\alpha \beta} \xi^{\alpha}\eta^{\beta}, we use the product rule to get
\dfrac{d}{d\tau}(w_{\alpha \beta} \xi^{\alpha}\eta^{\beta}) = <br /> ((\nabla_{\gamma} w_{\alpha \beta}) \xi^{\alpha}\eta^{\beta}<br /> + w_{\alpha \beta} (\nabla_{\gamma} \xi^{\alpha}) \eta^{\beta}<br /> + w_{\alpha \beta} \xi^{\alpha} (\nabla_{\gamma} \eta^{\beta})) \dfrac{dx^{\gamma}}{d\tau}

Using the semicolon notation, and using \dfrac{dx^{\gamma}}{d\tau}= u^{\gamma}, this becomes:

\dfrac{d}{d\tau}(w_{\alpha \beta} \xi^{\alpha}\eta^{\beta}) = <br /> (w_{\alpha \beta ; \gamma}\ \xi^{\alpha}\ \eta^{\beta}<br /> + w_{\alpha \beta}\ \xi^{\alpha}_{; \gamma}\ \eta^{\beta}<br /> + w_{\alpha \beta}\ \xi^{\alpha}\ \eta^{\beta}_{; \gamma}) u^{\gamma}

The last step doesn't have anything to do with differentiation; it's just a fact about tensors: If w_{\alpha \beta ; \gamma} is anti-symmetric in the first two indices, then w_{\alpha \beta ; \gamma} = 3 w_{[\alpha \beta ; \gamma]} - w_{\gamma \alpha ; \beta} - w_{\beta \gamma ; \alpha}
 
stevendaryl said:
Hmm. It doesn't seem to be a very big gap.

If Q is a function of coordinates, then \dfrac{d}{d\tau} Q = \dfrac{dx^{\gamma}}{d\tau} \nabla_{\gamma} Q. So in the particular case Q = w_{\alpha \beta} \xi^{\alpha}\eta^{\beta}, we use the product rule to get
\dfrac{d}{d\tau}(w_{\alpha \beta} \xi^{\alpha}\eta^{\beta}) = <br /> ((\nabla_{\gamma} w_{\alpha \beta}) \xi^{\alpha}\eta^{\beta}<br /> + w_{\alpha \beta} (\nabla_{\gamma} \xi^{\alpha}) \eta^{\beta}<br /> + w_{\alpha \beta} \xi^{\alpha} (\nabla_{\gamma} \eta^{\beta})) \dfrac{dx^{\gamma}}{d\tau}

Using the semicolon notation, and using \dfrac{dx^{\gamma}}{d\tau}= u^{\gamma}, this becomes:

\dfrac{d}{d\tau}(w_{\alpha \beta} \xi^{\alpha}\eta^{\beta}) = <br /> (w_{\alpha \beta ; \gamma}\ \xi^{\alpha}\ \eta^{\beta}<br /> + w_{\alpha \beta}\ \xi^{\alpha}_{; \gamma}\ \eta^{\beta}<br /> + w_{\alpha \beta}\ \xi^{\alpha}\ \eta^{\beta}_{; \gamma}) u^{\gamma}

The last step doesn't have anything to do with differentiation; it's just a fact about tensors: If w_{\alpha \beta ; \gamma} is anti-symmetric in the first two indices, then w_{\alpha \beta ; \gamma} = 3 w_{[\alpha \beta ; \gamma]} - w_{\gamma \alpha ; \beta} - w_{\beta \gamma ; \alpha}

Many thanks. Actually, I should have been more specific. What I am really confused with is how covariant derivative appeared. The source of my confusion is that earlier in the text it seemed to be defined that "d/d\tau" is for simple derivative (see attachment 1) and "D/d\tau" is for the covariant one (attachment 2)! And all the time they are in general relativistic formalism...

P.S.: Is it because the term which is being differentiated is actually a scalar and so ordinary or covariant derivatives are just the same?
 

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Last edited:
Sagar_C said:
Many thanks. Actually, I should have been more specific. What I am really confused with is how covariant derivative appeared. The source of my confusion is that earlier in the text it seemed to be defined that "d/d\tau" is for simple derivative (see attachment 1) and "D/d\tau" is for the covariant one (attachment 2)! And all the time they are in general relativistic formalism...

P.S.: Is it because the term which is being differentiated is actually a scalar and so ordinary or covariant derivatives are just the same?

Right. If you are taking the derivative of a scalar quantity, then there is no difference between an ordinary derivative and a covariant derivative.
 
Edited: Wrong post! Sorry!
 
Last edited:
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