News Texas to Charge Cheaper In State College Tuition to Illegal Immigrants

[chroot]

Now the job of the government should be to pass laws that fines the hell out of anyone hiring illegals. They should be flushed right back out of the country on a case by case basis.

<sarcasm> Now THAT will sure help your wallet get fatter! </sarcasm>

- Warren

 

[Cyrus]

Although its not pretty (or humane), putting landmines between the boarder woud solve the problem.

 

[Cyrus]

Because they want decent jobs and decent lives. Some people think they're entitled to such things just by being human. Other people get pretty caught up in the whole fence deal.

- Warren

Thats fine, then they should fight to end corruption in their country and get a job over there.

 

[chroot]

Although its not pretty (or humane), putting landmines between the boarder woud solve the problem.

Solve what problem, exactly? The problem of these Mexican kids trying to get college educations? We should kill them en masse instead?

- Warren

 

[MeJennifer]

Because they want decent jobs and decent lives. Some people think they're entitled to such things just by being human. Other people get pretty caught up in the whole fence deal.

Then I suppose that you and I disagree with the meaning of decent. Breaking the law is not decent in my book.

If they want a decent life then they should abide by the laws. If they want to work and live in the US then they apply for a visa just as decent people do. You are not decent if you cut the line and try to get in illegally.

I know many people from different countries who would like to stay and work in the United States but they don't qualify, they accept that, they don't want to break the laws. Now that is decent!

 

[chroot]

Thats fine, then they should fight to end corruption in their country and get a job over there.

Most Americans disapprove of their current President, yet they're having a pretty hard time getting him to do anything at all that they want him to do. And the US has one of the most functional governments on the planet, in terms of adjusting to the public's intent.

How exactly would you suggest that these poverty-stricken, uneducated Mexicans "fight" their government?

- Warren

 

[MeJennifer]

Solve what problem, exactly?

The problem is that we have people breaking the law. And I suppose the other problem is that there are people who don't think that is a problem.

And then there are people in the US who have businesses that profit from hiring illegal immigrants.

 

[chroot]

Then I suppose that you and I disagree with the meaning of decent. Breaking the law is not decent in my book.

<sarcasm> Ah, the old "the law is good... because... it's the law!" argument. Boy, that's a quality argument right there. </sarcasm>

- Warren

 

[chroot]

The problem is that we have people breaking the law. And I suppose the other problem is that there are people who don't think that is a problem.

I think the veracity of the law is the problem, not the people breaking the law. If you cannot understand this, I feel bad for you.

- Warren

 

[chemisttree]

Our tight borders are the reason that the immigrant population is booming. By making it more difficult for illegals to go home, visit their families, and return, the US gov't is making it more attractive for them to move here, get some bogus IDs, blend in and stay. The border is still relatively porous in places, but the tighter it gets, the longer illegal immigrants will stay.

This is the Last reason that illegals come to the US! I believe one reason that is a 'little' higher up on the list would be "#10,356. You get to go to college and pay in-state tuition; a benefit usually reserved for US citizens and legal Residents of Texas."

The border is still relatively porous in places, but the tighter it gets, the longer illegal immigrants will stay.

OMG! At odds with yourself in the same post! We were supposed to have 'tight borders', remember? Your words, definitely not mine! Spoken like someone who has never been to TX, CA, AZ, NM or even seen it on a map! There are several thousand miles of border down here. Not so many Border Patrol agents! BTW there are also several thousand miles of border with Canada. Also not so many Border Patrol Agents. A congressman easily crossed the border from Mexico to Texas riding an Elephant accompanied by a Mexican Maraichi band. This only several miles from the 'official' border crossing staffed by not so many Border Patrol agents! Why such a stunt? He had observed an illegal crossing directly under an international bridge unchecked. Right under the nose of not so many Border Patrol agents! He chased the illegal down himself and apprehended him! Relatively porous? Come on!

This situation is just what some industries want, including meat-packing plants, chicken raising operations, etc - a hard-working, cheap labor force that will not protest bad working conditions, long hours, etc, because they need the jobs, and because they know that they can easily be ratted out if they complain. These companies know that they're hiring illegals, and they like it that way.

Is this what some industries want? College educated illegals working cheap and without protest (see recent May day protest, er celebration)? When they graduate they will still be illegal! They will be trying for jobs as, say, a physicist, engineer, accountant, manager. Hits pretty close to home, right?

You can't be serious... please tell me you are not serious!

 

[chemisttree]

They should be flushed right back out of the country on a case by case basis.

Hmmmm. Sending illegals back to their country of origin by the case(load). Just might work! Certainly deny them the more obvious trappings that come from legal status!

 

[edward]

Illegals here in Az are complaining because they have to pay out of state tuition.

 

[Cyrus]

Solve what problem, exactly? The problem of these Mexican kids trying to get college educations? We should kill them en masse instead?

- Warren

No, you are convolution two issues now. It would stop people from crossing the boarder without having to pay someone to watch the boarder all day long. If you walk into a landmine, you will die. You have no business walking in the land that's is not your country.

Do you just stroll into Mexico or Canada whenever and wherever you feel like it? You'd be in a mexican/candian jail if you tried to pull that stunt and promptly deported back to the US.

 

[Cyrus]

Most Americans disapprove of their current President, yet they're having a pretty hard time getting him to do anything at all that they want him to do. And the US has one of the most functional governments on the planet, in terms of adjusting to the public's intent.

How exactly would you suggest that these poverty-stricken, uneducated Mexicans "fight" their government?

- Warren

We can help them, and that I would not mind supporting with government money. But in the end, yes, it is their responsiblity to change their country for the better. The same way its our responsibilty to hold bush et al accountable.


Your trying to put a band-aid on a problem that requires serious medical attention.

 

[turbo]

chemisttree, your response to my post is a string of non-sequiturs and misstatements from end to end. When the border (yes cyrus, it is a BORDER, not a boarder) was relatively open, Mexicans passed relatively freely back and forth and they went home to live with their families off-season and came back when their work opportunities were best. Now, with the tighter borders and the threat of exportation, they have a greater incentive to stay here permanently. This is not a secret and it is the subject of extensive public debate.

Yes, companies engaged in agriculture, meat-packing , poultry, etc willingly hire illegal aliens and want them to continue to be present in this country. The administration is throwing them a sop by proposing that they can "sponsor" "guest workers" with no real rights or prospect of citizenship. Cheap labor that can be tossed off for any reason.

And yes, I have visited your part of the world, and I live in Maine, which with the exception of NH, is bordered by Canada, and we have our own immigration/trade/employment issues. We have large populations of itinerant farm workers, many from Mexico, Jamaica, etc. You are not alone, you do not have a unique overriding perspective on immigration that trumps the opinions of others, and your tactics in argumentation suggest that you would rather holler and strut instead of looking at the underlying causes of our immigration problem.

 

[Cyrus]

Now, with the tighter borders and the threat of exportation, they have a greater incentive to stay here permanently. This is not a secret and it is the subject of extensive public debate.

The fact remains, it is a BORDER (did I get it right?). People are not free to come and go as they please. Now that they are inside the country, it is the job of our government and fellow citizens to have them removed and sent back to their country. They are here illegally.

This whole thing is a big mess. If you let them work here with a pass, now you open a new can of worms. They are not US citizens, so does US laws and regulations apply? Its just like GITMO all over again, but on an economic front.

The fact is, these people should be deported and legal mexicans should be given these jobs (if the want them), as full us citizens.

If you want to give them temp work passes, then we need to have a very clear set of rules and guidelines. For example, they have all the same rights as any US citizen in terms of work hours, working conditions etc; however, they don't have any right to minimum wage.

In other words, I am not willing to give illegal aliens the full rights of a US citizen if they work here with a permit (or illegally) because they are NOT US citizens and get an unfair advantage over other imigrants.

 

[turbo]

If you want to give them temp work passes, then we need to have a very clear set of rules and guidelines. For example, they have all the same rights as any US citizen in terms of work hours, working conditions etc; however, they don't have any right to minimum wage.

In other words, I am not willing to give illegal aliens the full rights of a US citizen if they work here with a permit (or illegally) because they are NOT US citizens and get an unfair advantage over other imigrants.

The agricultural combines want sub-citizen status for migrant workers with no rights, no benefits, no guarantee of a minimum wage, etc, and that's exactly what Bush and his administration want to give them. You apparently are not aware of the current federal regulations that exempt the employers of workers in any agricultural endeavor from length-of-workday restrictions and allows them to require extended workdays with NO requirement to pay any overtime. You might want to bone up on this stuff before getting too strident about how easy the immigrant laborers have it in the US. Itinerant farm laborers often work dawn-til-dark at jobs that you would never agree to do, at wages you would never agree to, and with no overtime nor access to health insurance or other benefits. This situation has developed over many years, and it is not as black-and-white, nor as easily resolvable as you have presented it, nor do our political hacks in DC ever address it honestly. Every pronouncement is aimed at appeasing an audience back home.

 

[edward]

Both migrant and illegal field works have left the fields for better jobs elsewhere.

Morning Edition, September 27, 2005 · California is facing what some are calling a dire shortage of farm workers to harvest the region's fruit and vegetables. Many farm workers have left the fields to take less-grueling, better-paying jobs in construction and other business sectors.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4865345

The argument that we need them to harvest our crops no longer holds water. They no longer want to harvest crops for minimum wage when they can start out as construction laborers at $8 to $10 per hour.

We do need to take control of the border. Drug smugglers and people smugglers are now the same people, Mexican drug gangs. Now the Mexican government has formed Grupo Beta, their job is to assist illegals who want to cross the border by forming staging areas.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050818-124840-9453r.htm

We have been playing catch and release for far too long. And we can not afford to import Mexico's social problems.

 

[russ_watters]

Another fast-moving thread that I didn't read all of, but could someone clarify what this law actually does, please? The title of the thread (and article) says "illegal immigrants", but in the article itself it says "children of illegal immigrants", and those are two different things entirely if that implies the kids are actually citizens. Regardless of opinions on illegal immigration, if the kids were born here, they're citizens and need to be treated as such.

 

[drankin]

Another fast-moving thread that I didn't read all of, but could someone clarify what this law actually does, please? The title of the thread (and article) says "illegal immigrants", but in the article itself it says "children of illegal immigrants", and those are two different things entirely if that implies the kids are actually citizens. Regardless of opinions on illegal immigration, if the kids were born here, they're citizens and need to be treated as such.

Technically, that is not actually true. It is a myth. Just because you happen to be born in the US does not grant you immediate citizenship. A lot of people believe that and some states might even ignorantly practice that but it is not true... now I have to find references :)

 

[drankin]

Technically, that is not actually true. It is a myth. Just because you happen to be born in the US does not grant you immediate citizenship. A lot of people believe that and some states might even ignorantly practice that but it is not true... now I have to find references :)

I'm going to take that back. It's more of a loop-hole at this point in time. The original intention of the 14th Amendment was that the children of blacks and former slaves were given citizenship. http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters4608

It's obviously something we need to define. If you are an illegal parent, your children should not be given citizenship simply because of the location you gave birth. The term used is "Anchor Babies". It's unethical. Children born here by illegal mothers should be deported with their parents.

 

[edward]

Technically, that is not actually true. It is a myth. Just because you happen to be born in the US does not grant you immediate citizenship. A lot of people believe that and some states might even ignorantly practice that but it is not true... now I have to find references :)

But legally it is true. The 14th amendment says so. They are now commonly known as Anchor Babies. This has always been going on but never became an issue until recently.

In years past a woman would cross the border just to give birth to her child , then go back to Mexico with the baby. This gave the child more options, such as attending American schools in border towns and coming here to work as an adult.

A Mexican woman can come here on a short term visa, give birth to a baby and it is automatically a U.S. citizen. She will typically leave the baby with relatives. Those relatives are usually already living and working in this country illegally. Then her entire family can easily get a visa to come here and visit the baby. Then they simply stay.

It beats the hell out of getting robbed while crossing the border, then being stuffed along with 40 other illegals into a drop house in Phoenix and being held for ransom.

Our more recent entrants are coming from further south, well down into central America. They haven't learned all of the tricks yet. They get robbed in Mexico and are then are forced by drug gangs to carry drugs over the border. In many recent incidents the illegals have been used by the drug gangs to divert the attention of the Border Patrol away from an area where drugs are being smuggled into the country.

 

[moose]

I'd rather we throw money away than do something as unfair as this. Oh, you mean just because they are here illegally and have never paid US taxes, they can get a cheaper education, oh what a great idea! I have had a job for half a year and have paid more in taxes than those illegals have! My parents sure as hell have paid a hell of a lot more, and yet if I were to get an education in Texas (or California, I think they have something similar in some of the state colleges), it would cost me at least three times as much. Only because I have been here legally.

 

[chemisttree]

Another fast-moving thread that I didn't read all of, but could someone clarify what this law actually does, please? The title of the thread (and article) says "illegal immigrants", but in the article itself it says "children of illegal immigrants", and those are two different things entirely if that implies the kids are actually citizens. Regardless of opinions on illegal immigration, if the kids were born here, they're citizens and need to be treated as such.

There was no law passed. Only an attempt that was thwarted. Business as usual in Texas is to charge every one who meets the state's residency requirements to be allowed to attend state universities and pay in state tuition. That determination is made by the university by examination of a document presented by the student. (Yes, its that easy!)

http://info.sos.state.tx.us/fids/200600550-1.pdf

If they have any questions they "may" ask for documentation.

http://info.sos.state.tx.us/fids/200600550-2.html

As for the law allowing the 'children' of illegal aliens to attend school, that was a spin put on the story by the reporter. The text of the proposed law never mentioned children of illegal immigrants. Read for yourself...

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/region/legislature/stories/05/10/10immigtuition.html

edit: Mexican citizens have the right to attend Texas Universities and pay in state tuition if they can show a financial need.

http://www.admissions.txstate.edu/_undergrad/resident_require.htm#exceptions