That Will Smith and Chris Rock thing

[russ_watters]

What on Earth are you talking about? There are likely many who are impressed by how strongly he "defended his wife's honor" kind of thing and slapping another celebrity hardly is going to ruin his reputation.

There are many, but the proportion seems wildly in the opposite direction to me, reading media coverage/listening to people talk about it on the radio. The positive reaction itself reflects toxic masculinity and violent black culture problems:
https://kareem.substack.com/p/will-smith-did-a-bad-bad-thing?s=r

 

[phinds]

There are many, but the proportion seems wildly in the opposite direction to me, reading media coverage/listening to people talk about it on the radio.

Yeah, I think I underestimated the backlash in this case, BUT ... I doubt it will affect his bankability as a major star.

 

[pinball1970]

If it was staged Will Smith deserves another Oscar for his portrayal of an angry Husband. He sure had me convinced.

Either way, it can't be said this went off without a Hitch...

and...

This must be the return of slapstick comedy...

This is just a hypothesis, Ricky Gervais at the globes set a new bar.

Very edgy, sarcastic, uncomfortable AND funny, roasting the entire industry. But they keep asking him back (5 times)

Perhaps Rock was pushing the envelope for the Oscars as his stand up (which I like) is also very edgy.

It backfired. Unless it was staged to increase interest, I think that’s unlikely, just too bizarre and unpredictable in terms of outcome.

 

[Isopod]

I don't think that either man was in the right.

Chris Rocks joke was offensive and not funny.
Will Smiths reaction was violent & OTT.

They should both be apologising to each other.

I hate celebrity culture.

 

[pinball1970]

I don't think that either man was in the right.

Chris Rocks joke was offensive and not funny.
Will Smiths reaction was violent & OTT.

They should both be apologising to each other.

I hate celebrity culture.

They have completely different lives to us. Egos, status and wealth.
Ordinary intelligent people do not behave like that.
Giving Chris Rock the benefit of the doubt he may not have known she had a medical condition.
On the other hand women do not lose their hair like that at that age statistically at least and intelligent people tend to recognise that. She could have been in the middle of treatment for cancer. He should have done his research.
If that was my wife? I would have been dignified, nodded in his direction with a straight face and stayed put. Then had a chat with him back stage.

 

[russ_watters]

Giving Chris Rock the benefit of the doubt he may not have known she had a medical condition.

There have been reports that he did not know, not confirmed by him.

On the other hand women do not lose their hair like that at that age statistically at least and intelligent people tend to recognise that.

Her head is clearly shaved (the alopecia damage is on top/back, so, hard to see), which makes it look like a fashion choice, which is not uncommon amongst black women.

She could have been in the middle of treatment for cancer. He should have done his research.

If he in fact did not know, it's a little surprising since she had talked publicly about it. However, the joke was apparently not scripted. Maybe the dark green dress played into it?

If that was my wife? I would have been dignified, nodded in his direction with a straight face and stayed put. Then had a chat with him back stage.

A responsible/adult response. Also a public announcement/tweet would be appropriate.

 

[DaveC426913]

The possibility of being roasted by the host is part of the allure.

What you're suggesting is like going to Sea World, sitting in the front row and then complaining that you got splashed.

This.

One does not go to the Oscars if one can't cope with being roasted.

Regardless of motive though, smacking someone is Neanderthalesque.

(Not to mention that he's made himself fodder for every comedian from now until the Oscars years hence)

 

[DaveC426913]

I doubt it will affect his bankability as a major star

Ehhhhh...
Ask Mel Gibson if just a single toxic blowout can affect one's bankability.

 

[pinball1970]

Ehhhhh...
Ask Mel Gibson if just a single toxic blowout can affect one's bankability.

What has come out of this for me is body language? How robust is this? How sound is the science and is it Science? @jim mcnamara and @BillTre

 

[phinds]

Ehhhhh...
Ask Mel Gibson if just a single toxic blowout can affect one's bankability.

Huh? I'm aware he got a lot of bad press for a while (and as I recall, very deservedly so) but you see any gaps in his employment history up to and including this year?

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000154/

 

[jim mcnamara]

@pinball1970 -
Here are two papers showing how medical people use non-verbal communication skills
doi: 10.1186/s12909-018-1260-9
"Verbal and non-verbal communication skills including empathy during history taking of undergraduate medical students"

doi: 10.1186/s12912-020-00443-9
"Evidence of nonverbal communication between nurses and older adults: a scoping review"

Yes, it is pretty well understood. It also has cultural aspects as well.
Example anecdotes:
I lived for 30 years on Kewa and Dine - two reservations in New Mexico, Arizona.
One glaring aspect (that's a joke BTW) was that a traditional person thinks you are giving them the evil eye if you look at that person while you are talking. Eye contact is big negative. This is mostly reversed for Western culture. Our daughter drove my wife around the bend by adopting non-verbal mannerisms she learned from her friends - on purpose of course. Evil kid.

There was an exchange program for teachers in the Ganado AZ (Apache county AZ) from Millersville State in Pennsylvania. They gave a workshop on non-verbal communication and a few other things to defuse culture shock on arriving in Ganado. Navajo students going the other way were used to Anglo body language because of TV repeater networks.

 

[BillTre]

What has come out of this for me is body language? How robust is this? How sound is the science and is it Science? @jim mcnamara and @BillTre

I did not know much about this before, but I was impressed by the guy in the video.
To me it is reminiscent of a detailed behavioral analysis of some animal behavior.
It also reminds me of doing facial analysis to determine the emotions someone is feeling.
It would have been nice to see more detailed autonomic functional outputs like pupil size, breathing rate, body temperature, etc. You could go on and on, and its not in a lab setting.

Even then, I think a good actor (really feeling their part at the time) could be deceptive of their intent, but some of the details of the observations make that seem less likely to me.
More like bad ideas and bad reactions.

 

[ergospherical]

 

[DaveC426913]

Huh? I'm aware he got a lot of bad press for a while (and as I recall, very deservedly so) but you see any gaps in his employment history up to and including this year?

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000154/

If I read my wiki right, he was blacklisted by Hollywood for ten years. But it wasn't one incident, it was several, and they ranged across ethnicities.

 

[phinds]

If I read my wiki right, he was blacklisted by Hollywood for ten years. But it wasn't one incident, it was several, and they ranged across ethnicities.

What 10 years was that? Did you look at the link I provided? He has worked every year for several decades.

 

[DaveC426913]

What 10 years was that? Did you look at the link I provided? He has worked every year for several decades.

I can see by the URL you just linked to IMDb.

Your yardstick is faulty. Being blacklisted doesn't mean he did not work at all.

But ill bet his pocketbook got lonely. A more accurate metric might be how much he got paid during those ten years. Presumably he had to go with whomever would take him.

 

[russ_watters]

Huh? I'm aware he got a lot of bad press for a while (and as I recall, very deservedly so) but you see any gaps in his employment history up to and including this year?

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000154/

Well there's a 5 year gap in movie acting starting in 2005 and a 9 year gap from directing starting in 2007 and the movies he did act in were mostly small roles or movies. I mean, he wasn't in danger of starving, but I bet he lost 90% of his career from 2006-2016 and its still not what it was before then. His wiki page describes it as a blacklisting:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Gibson

[The filmography chart/matrix on wiki is easier to read than imdb]

 

[phinds]

Well there's a 5 year gap in movie acting starting in 2005 and a 9 year gap from directing starting in 2007 and the movies he did act in were mostly small roles or movies. I mean, he wasn't in danger of starving, but I bet he's lost 90% of his career from 2006-2016 and its still not what it was before then. His wiki page describes it as a blacklisting:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Gibson

OOPS. I missed that. My bad (and I was only looking at the acting; I forgot he is also a director). @DaveC426913 you were right.

 

[ElDoRado1239]

I just wanted to thank you for the wonderful body language breakdown, quite fascinating.

I always love a random "deep dip" into a science I know little about. Although I think we all know quite a lot about body language by default, it's mostly just a lack of skill to properly articulate what we perceive.
Especially mere description of body language is very hard for me to decode. If somebody asked me what "tightly clasped hands with interlocked fingers" meant I'd probably say something like "is that a thing you do when you try to maintain a dignified posture while sitting in a high-class restaurant?"
Yet when I saw her do it the meaning was pretty obvious to me. Or at least I felt it means what the body language expert said it means.

Anyways - to add my two bits, I think this definitely wasn't staged. Some think that being a seasoned actor automatically makes you able to pretend anything in real-time. But an actor has a role they project, script they adhere to, director and a whole team of people steering the action even though they might not intervene directly. It was a "scene" some, what, ten minutes long? If actors could shoot scenes 10 minutes per take, it wouldn't take months to record. Will's wife looks obviously offended the second she realizes what he said. And I am confident Will didn't hear or get the joke, his laugh seems to be one of those "hahaha I've no idea what he meant". Then he saw his wife and that probably triggered him connecting the dots.

Finally - do people know why the joke was so offensive? That she has a medical condition (alopecia) and her shaved head is by no means a choice? Kind of on its way to saying "hey there baldie" to a female cancer patient. Female baldness can be especially devastating and from the other reactions and the speech, it seems she has been a target of abuse for some time now. And he told that "joke" with a proud, arrogant stance which didn't help to tone down the emotional reaction either.

Addendum : I don't see that slap as a full-on act of agression─that would be the fist someone mentioned─but rather a "shame on you!" followed by a few assorted profanities. That's what makes me think of it as rather acceptable, unlike a punch or any sort of prolonged fighting.

 

[DaveC426913]

do people know why the joke was so offensive

I don't see that slap as a full-on act of agression─that would be the fist someone mentioned─but rather a "shame on you!"

Let me see if I've got this. In one breath you are:

- condemning Rock ("so offensive") for roasting someone - a time honoured tradition at the Oscars and what he was hired by the show to do

while

- defending Smith's assault (a crime) as nothing more than a harmless rebuke.

Do I have that right?

 

[BWV]

Smith's wife is a celebrity in her own right and fair game to mock

Jim Carrey nailed it here

 

[Klystron]

I thought the whole thing was bizarre to say the least. The body language analysis I posted claims the incident was not staged.
The analysis looks at Smith, his wife and Rock then Smith's speech.
I probably know as much as the next man about body language (not a huge amount) and this break down gives examples of research on various points.
If you think it was fake I would like your view on the video. It's quite long but you will probably have a view half way through.

Interesting talk on body dynamics. 'Too much stew from one oyster' perhaps, but an instructive analysis.

What baffles me are the 'great actor', 'best performer' and 'great man' assurances. I watch few television shows and have only seen Will Smith act in a SF remake where he was upstaged by a much better child actor. The incident at the academy awards shows a tall fit man attacking a much smaller comic performing as host, not expecting violence.

At best, Smith's reaction was dangerous, immature and inappropriate, out of proportion to the joking reference. I have seen "GI Jane" with my daughter. We both admired Demi Moore's bravura performance and strong character. Rock's reference should be taken as a funny compliment to how Ms. Smith bravely shaves her head without wearing a hairpiece in public.

Smith's excuse about defending his wife indicates misogyny and sexism confirming his immaturity. My late wife and my sisters easily handle verbal social situations without my bad temper intervening. Loud bad language confirms his lack of acting chops, an inability to articulate under pressure without a script, to react as a responsible adult.

A telling moment in our culture.

 

[russ_watters]

Finally - do people know why the joke was so offensive? That she has a medical condition (alopecia) and her shaved head is by no means a choice? Kind of on its way to saying "hey there baldie" to a female cancer patient.

So, I've been taking that for granted, but I just saw an analysis of an appearance she made to talk about it several years ago by a doctor today (the video was made a couple of months ago) that suggested her main issue is probably just a plastic surgery scar. She may also have one of several forms of hair loss that half of all women get as they age, but it's not clear she even has them (and almost nobody refers to that as alopecia). There's nothing to indicate hair loss so bad she needed to shave her head.

"Alopecia" is just a generic term for hair loss, but it immediately makes people think of the severe version that is an autoimmune disease that causes large bald patches or complete baldness. There's no indication she has that.

Here it is:

 

[skyshrimp]

Chris and Will might have staged the whole thing for social media attention, but Will has also slapped a reporter in the past so who knows.

 

[Mondayman]

Jada said in an interview that all she can do is laugh about her conditon. Clearly, that was a bald-faced lie. Talking about someone's partner can be in poor taste, but I thought the joke was pretty tame. Maybe I'm biased because I grew up on South Park, Trailer Park Boys, Chapelle's Show, and Comedy Roasts.

Anyway, the Oscars suck. I don't condone violence. But having some stars drop the gloves and engaging in some fisticuffs would probably be the best thing to ever happen for it.

Funny story. Dave Hanson (from Slapshot!) fought Bobby Hull during a WHA game in1978, and pulled his toupee off during a fight. Hanson apologized, and Hull responded "It's okay kid, I needed a new one anyways".

 

[phinds]

Jada said in an interview that all she can do is laugh about her conditon. Clearly, that was a bald-faced lie.

And what leads you to that conclusion? Do you know her personally?

 

[Mondayman]

And what leads you to that conclusion? Do you know her personally?

It was a joke. I'd rather not know her personally.

 

[phinds]

It was a joke.

Ah. You meant a bald-headed lie.

 

[Mondayman]

Ah. You meant a bald-headed lie.

I certainly did.

 

[WWGD]

It seems Chris Rock's brothers:' The', 'Igneous' and ' Sedimentary' , are considering suing Smith.