The 5 States That Banned Evolution In Classrooms.

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Originally posted by Evo
And we won't have to pay taxes!

I am actually quite serious on this. If the law offers such a collossal loophole for irrational beliefs, simply due to the label of "religion", it's high time this is exploited for a good cause. Seriously - declare universities as churches teaching science on the side. Why not?
 
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Thats actually a pretty good idea FZ. I'm not quite sure how you would go about setting it up. I know pot smokers can join a group called www.thc-ministries.org[/URL] (I think that's the addy, if not, just search for "thc ministry"). Anyhow, I imagine you would go about setting it up similar to the way these people have done.

You'd probably need an ordained minister, probably a few licenses or something. It would probably be rather difficult to implement, but would be worth the trouble.


But you know, states banning evolution doesn't surprise me much. I'm pretty freshly out of high school, and, for the most part public schools are geared to mass producing factory workers. Understanding evolution doesn't help you push buttons better, or inspect products on an assembly line, or cook an order of frys better then the next guy.

Infact, you don't need to understand it to be a good american. Also, a person who understands evolution likely has a questioning nature about them. People like to question things generally do not make very good employees.

The entire education system is garbage, IMO. I suppose it is better then none at all, atleast they do teach basic maths and what not. Personally, I wouldn't have minded learning about electronic fundamentals and physics back in high school. Sure, we may have speant 2 weeks a year on physics, but that was about it.

In some schools, one only needs 2 science classes to graduate. My former school considered physical education as a science. What a joke.
 
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Originally posted by russ_watters
edit: While we're at it, astronomy, chemistry, physics, and geology also directly contradict the literal creation story. We'll need to remove all science from our schools.

good point russ...where does the "consideration" for other's beliefs begin to interfere with other's desire to continue the path of the discovery of our natural world? besides, science classes was what made school worth it!
 
Okay, anyone recall/know where the Xtian Scientists (faith healing, the lord works in mysterious ways types) vs. Supreme Court(? maybe just federal district courts) stand? Few years back (30 or 40) courts were ordering medical treatment for minor children of XS parents, and I can't say I've bothered to keep track of this particular religion vs. government squabble --- but, it's pretty much the same thing --- intervention for the kids' sakes --- face it, mom and dad are lost causes, but the kids do deserve some chance at something besides backwards lives.
 
Originally posted by Bystander
Okay, anyone recall/know where the Xtian Scientists (faith healing, the lord works in mysterious ways types) vs. Supreme Court(? maybe just federal district courts) stand? Few years back (30 or 40) courts were ordering medical treatment for minor children of XS parents, and I can't say I've bothered to keep track of this particular religion vs. government squabble --- but, it's pretty much the same thing --- intervention for the kids' sakes --- face it, mom and dad are lost causes, but the kids do deserve some chance at something besides backwards lives.
The 3 guys I work with I mentioned before belong to one of those church's (there are several in Philly). The largest is called "Faith Tabernacle." Google it. Its worse than Christian Scientist and some of the stories are pretty sick (like a kid with a tumor 1/3 the size of his head).

For a while there was a specific religious exemption in federal child abuse laws, but that was largely superfluous (no need to arrest for child abuse when you can arrest for murder) and it was eventually struck down. Still, many states allow you to argue religion in your defense and we all know how fickle juries can be.
 
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Originally posted by russ_watters
For a while there was a specific religious exemption in federal child abuse laws, but that was largely superfluous (no need to arrest for child abuse when you can arrest for murder) and it was eventually struck down. Still, many states allow you to argue religion in your defense and we all know how fickle juries can be.

Well, shoot --- thought there might still be a precedent standing for the kids. That vs. the number of cases adjudicated in favor of "preservation of cultural heritage," and there's no way to stifle the creation noise --- precedent is on their side. Unless Zero is willing to give a little to get a little --- willing to pitch ebonics and kwanza to shut up the nuts from the other extreme?
 
Originally posted by Bystander
Well, shoot --- thought there might still be a precedent standing for the kids. That vs. the number of cases adjudicated in favor of "preservation of cultural heritage," and there's no way to stifle the creation noise --- precedent is on their side. Unless Zero is willing to give a little to get a little --- willing to pitch ebonics and kwanza to shut up the nuts from the other extreme?
What the hell are you talking about?
 
Originally posted by Bystander
Well, shoot --- thought there might still be a precedent standing for the kids. That vs. the number of cases adjudicated in favor of "preservation of cultural heritage," and there's no way to stifle the creation noise --- precedent is on their side. Unless Zero is willing to give a little to get a little --- willing to pitch ebonics and kwanza to shut up the nuts from the other extreme?


You're comparing African American Vernacular English and a holiday to pseudoscience?
 
I think we'd be better off drafting an amendment that dictates any theory from any school of thought may be taught in public school, as long as anything that has not been proven must be proposed as such. The fact that it is not proven can not be excluded. (IE, a school can't run around telling everyone that creationism is true, only that creationism is believed.)

Think about it. If a school tends to lean toward an extreme, the school's reputation will draw attention and the school can govern itself accordingly. If the local populace believes what is being taught, then by all means let them teach it! If that's not the case, they will need to correct the situation, or they will become less popular. As long as the students understand it is a belief and not necessarily a truth, what harm can be done? Nature has its own method for developing a system, it's called survival of the fittest!

A system should be no more complicated than is necessary. Let them teach what they want, let us force no exclusion and no inclusion. I also think the Pledge should be done away with altogether. A child from a foreign country should be able to learn English, and walk into one of our classrooms and sit down and learn. Forced pledges teach only one thing: talk is cheap.
 
I think we'd be better off drafting an amendment that dictates any theory from any school of thought may be taught in public school, as long as anything that has not been proven must be proposed as such.

There goes physics. Or did you think that any physical theory from Newton to superstrings has ever been proved? All they ever get is accumulations of evidence for and absences of evidence against. And on that scale evolution is as strongly supported as much of physics.

The criterion should not be, to highlight anything that hasn't been "proved", but to highlight anything that has definitely been falsified, like YE creationism.
 
Ironically the e******** word has been mentioned in my school in Florida. It and the D******** (Social version) comes up quite frequently in American History. While I did not learn of it directly through a biology class it came indirectly through history. Fortunately the subject of history cannot be altered by a reactionary elite.

If I remember correctly the first situation like this occurring is the Scopes Trial in Tennessee, 1925. John T. Scopes, a biology teacher, was indicted for teaching e********. William Jennings Bryan, a self proclaimed bible expert and prosecutor of the case, was cornered and made foolish by Scopes' defender, Clarence Darrow. Scopes only received a $100 fine as a verdict.

This issue has been going on for quite some time. Its like we are taking a step back in time before separation of church and state. We might as well go back to not learning anything at all and clubbing each other with large sacks of heavy doorknobs. Grunt. Grunt.
 
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Originally posted by treat2
“Currently five states _ Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Mississippi and Oklahoma _ have no references to evolution in their state school curriculums, according to the National Center for Science Education.”

Seems like every state has some bad history on this topic. Just in 2004...

In March, the Ohio state school board voted for their "Critical Analysis of Evolution" which is an optional set of lessons (contains some of "intelligent design theory") for schools to use in teaching science for a new graduation test.

In March, the Alabama House Education Committee passed a bill that would provide teachers and instructors at public institutions "the affirmative right and freedom to present scientific, historical, theoretical, or evidentiary information pertaining to alternative theories or points of view on the subject of origins," and protection from penalties for teaching alternatives.

This year, Missouri, Minnesota, & California had some similar debates going on.

I wonder if GWB's Education Plan should be called:
"All Children Left 2,000 Years Behind!"

LOL - thanks, I needed that

Yep, Bush believes that both evolution and creationism should be taught in schools (but he prefers to let local/state school boards decide).

Anyone know what Kerry believes?