The Absurdity of Polygamy: A Look at the Claims of a Dutch Professor

[Kerrie]

Some people that is.

Marriage for me is a lifetime commitment, and I do very much care about staying with the woman I married. That's one of the reasons I got married.

As for Polygamy, and with equal consideration Polyandry, it would seem to be rather impractical, because most likely a hierarchy would develop and that would force some husbands and wives into a subordinate role. Certainly there are examples, e.g. Mormon practice of polygamy, but as far as I can tell, they don't seem all that successful.

Then there would be the issue of property, or community property. How to divide assets, especially in the event of death (inheritance). Divorce could be complicated too.

And then there is the issue of having children, and particularly the relationships of the primary couple during gestation.

Maybe some people can deal with it - but I imagine the vast majority cannot.

All joking aside, I have to agree with what Astro is saying. Most people aren't into sharing their partners because trust can get violated, and trust is very precious. I know that when I married my husband, I was making a lifetime committment to him only because of who he is as an individual. Having more then one partner would eventually cause one to "choose" one over the other because of a bond that could develop.

 

[Moonbear]

There already are a number of companes that offer on premises day care for their worker's children. They do it to cut down on absenteeism. They hire professional day care workers.

Oh, I'm aware of those, though they aren't nearly as common as I'd like. But they are also expensive to staff, and you still have the problem of parents not really spending enough time with their kids. So, I'm really just taking that a step further to strike a balance where parents get to interact more with their children. I also like Gail's thought about cutting down on workplace stress by having time to paint and play with popsicle sticks as an added benefit.

Do you have any idea how common such on-site day care is outside of the tech industry? I've heard of it mostly in relation to software companies, where they took on what was at the time sort of a counter-culture family friendly work environment, and I thought it started happening right along with the whole shift to casual work attire as well. I rarely hear of such an option outside of the tech industry though and figured hiring the full-time daycare staff may be too costly for some companies to consider (though, when you look at the increase in worker productivity and reduced absenteeism, I agree, it's very cost-effective; especially if it's something that can be flexible enough to be available on an as-needed basis, like the day your kid's school is closed for snow but you still have to get to work).

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I think he's asking for a "sammich" or in my vernacular, a "sammy". Either way, good luck with that, Ivan. heh.

I used to tell Tsu that I wanted 8 children. She had her legs crossed for years.

 

[Moonbear]

I used to tell Tsu that I wanted 8 children. She had her legs crossed for years.

LOL! That reminds me of the advice given to one of my college friends by her father. The best form of birth control is one aspirin...held firmly between the knees.

 

[Evo]

Oh, I'm aware of those, though they aren't nearly as common as I'd like. But they are also expensive to staff, and you still have the problem of parents not really spending enough time with their kids. So, I'm really just taking that a step further to strike a balance where parents get to interact more with their children.

I don't think they're very common, unfortunately. I believe that for most (if not all) of these the parent still has to pay, but for the added convenience, it's a no brainer. The parent can spend lunch time with their kids, have more time together before and after work. There are a lot of benefits.

The only problem with the parents alternating working in the daycare is that some parents may not be willing, or be good at it. They really should be trained, qualified, licensed personnel for insurance reasons, if nothing else. Plus, as much as I love my kids, I can't stand children in general. I didn't like children when I was a child and I still don't like them. I would not be a good candidate for caring for someone else's kids. Do you remember my posts about that little boy I nicknamed Vermin?

 

[Moonbear]

I would not be a good candidate for caring for someone else's kids. Do you remember my posts about that little boy I nicknamed Vermin?

Oh dear. I guess that would be a bigger problem than I thought. I don't remember you talking about a kid you named Vermin. I must have missed it or it was a while ago.

Okay, leave the kids in regular day care; does that mean I'd have to give up the painting and popsicle stick hour in my plan too?

 

[Evo]

Okay, leave the kids in regular day care; does that mean I'd have to give up the painting and popsicle stick hour in my plan too?

No, I think a time each day for adults to paint and make things out of popsicle sticks is a great idea! I know it would make me a more productive worker.

At my other job, the guys I worked with had a stress ball shaped like a brain and they'd get frustrated and start throwing it. I'd hear "incoming" and know I was about to get hit in the head with someones brain.

 

[Moonbear]

At my other job, the guys I worked with had a stress ball shaped like a brain and they'd get frustrated and start throwing it. I'd hear "incoming" and know I was about to get hit in the head with someones brain.

I have one of those! I love it! I used to have two, but gave one away to a student who I was regularly hearing through a closed door swearing at her computer...she was very appreciative of it.

 

[franznietzsche]

I have one of those! I love it! I used to have two, but gave one away to a student who I was regularly hearing through a closed door swearing at her computer...she was very appreciative of it.

Ooh, i want one.

 

[Moonbear]

Ooh, i want one.

I don't know where you buy them. I got mine from vendors who were giving them away at conferences (they'll do anything to bribe scientists to talk to them, and they know we'll do almost anything to get free toys).

 

[franznietzsche]

I don't know where you buy them. I got mine from vendors who were giving them away at conferences (they'll do anything to bribe scientists to talk to them, and they know we'll do almost anything to get free toys).

hehe, scientists and toys.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I was thinking of you today, Moonbear. In need of a free meal, I wandered through a bio-tech vendor faire on campus to scam some complimentary buffet food. Alas, the tchochkies (sp?) were a pathetic offering. A few free beakers and eye-dropper thingies. Nothing nearly as cool as brains. Must be budget cuts.

 

[Moonbear]

Oh, the vendor fairs on campus are always awful. It's at the conferences where they go all out and spend the big bucks that you get cool toys. Though, nothing like you used to be able to get. Someone came in and slapped new regulations on all the drug companies limiting the size of the gifts they could give out (apparently it was perceived as kick-backs or bribes for the M.D.s to prescribe their products). But I've gotten those insulated bags for lunches, coffee mugs, umbrellas, cheap radios, stopwatches and calculators, a great laser pointer, a really cool mouse, and I get my year's supply of pens for the lab (since they always get stolen anyway).

 

[Evo]

OMG, I just noticed your new Avatar! Is that a kitten shooting a rifle?? It's adorable!

 

[Moonbear]

OMG, I just noticed your new Avatar! Is that a kitten shooting a rifle?? It's adorable!

It is. Thanks. I just found it tonight and couldn't resist.

 

[Moses]

mmm, its 4 am here and me needing to go to sleep [oh this busy life makes me not to come here since a while, hi ppl btw]

I haven't read the whole replies yet, i came and ounfd 3 pages, i will put two cents i hope they will be useful, i know it may sounds random, but my intension is adding an opinion ppl will find it useful to use for making conlcuiosns:

Polgamy is NOT bad totally, even it can lead to some horrbile situations, one wife is better, still in some cases polygamy will be good. the least i can say about the article justifications is that i disgree totally with this kinds of justifications.

[please chill out after reading this, i know it may sound odd, but be open-minded please , me will never considering marrying two womens, thuogh, for another reasons regardin me as a person, as i like the black and deep blue colors to wear on myself, and don't like to wear pink

 

[matthyaouw]

yeah, well, I don't know why he should be fired or should step down

I don't believe he should, but people have lost their jobs over controversial comments in the past if a large group oppose their ideas. Perhaps he won't but if religious groups kicked up a fuss about it, it wouldn't surprise me if there were reprocussions.

 

[Zantra]

All joking aside, I have to agree with what Astro is saying. Most people aren't into sharing their partners because trust can get violated, and trust is very precious. I know that when I married my husband, I was making a lifetime committment to him only because of who he is as an individual. Having more then one partner would eventually cause one to "choose" one over the other because of a bond that could develop.

Not that I'm advocating polygamy, but parents are presented with a similar situation with children. At some point it could be made to appear that you have to "choose" one child over the other, if you have more than one child. Of course parents will(in most cases) love both children equally. The perception by the child that the parent loves them or their sibling more than the other one is an imagined one, and most people accept that a parent CAN love both children equally.

If polygamy were an accepted societal norm, then the same situation would apply. Of course that would be based on the individual, but if it was accepted as a norm, it's assumed that the woman entering into that type of arrangement would be fully willing to share her husband with another wife. Wether or not society would accept it as a norm or individually the feelings would change with this is another story..

 

[Astronuc]

Of course parents will(in most cases) love both children equally. The perception by the child that the parent loves them or their sibling more than the other one is an imagined one, and most people accept that a parent CAN love both children equally.

Yes, parents should love each child (both implies only two) equally. However, humans being who and what they are need explicit statements.

I was the oldest of 4 siblings, and I initially was the recipient of exclusive attention of both parents. I suspect my siblings thought I received preferential treatment as we all got older. That was not the case. My parents made sure that we each got individual attention, and in fact, because I was oldest, I participated in the care of the two youngest ones - I even changed my youngest brother's diapers (I was 8.5 years older). As a young teenager, I was given the responsibility of looking out for my sister (5 years younger) and youngest brother, since both parents worked with overlapping schedules.

With my own two children, I let them know 'explicitly' that each is very special and each is loved equally.

Sadly, I do know of cases where one child has received better or preferential treatment than the other(s).

 

[Kerrie]

Not that I'm advocating polygamy, but parents are presented with a similar situation with children. At some point it could be made to appear that you have to "choose" one child over the other, if you have more than one child. Of course parents will(in most cases) love both children equally. The perception by the child that the parent loves them or their sibling more than the other one is an imagined one, and most people accept that a parent CAN love both children equally.

If polygamy were an accepted societal norm, then the same situation would apply. Of course that would be based on the individual, but if it was accepted as a norm, it's assumed that the woman entering into that type of arrangement would be fully willing to share her husband with another wife. Wether or not society would accept it as a norm or individually the feelings would change with this is another story..

As a parent of two children, (a third on the way), I can never compare the love I have for my children to the love I have for my spouse/significant other. I have more of a similar relationship with each of my children that entails guidance, setting examples, discipline and of course an unconditional love that will always be there. My intentions for my children are to help them be the best adult they can be to succeed in life. With a spouse/significant other, my love entails friendship, trust, equality, respect, but still based on a conditional love because we both agreed together to remain exclusive to one another, to place a sacred trust in each other.

 

[Moonbear]

Even despite loving children equally and making every effort to show them this equally as well, sibling rivalries still develop, and children don't perceive that they are receiving that love equally. So, even if someone could love all their spouses equally, there's still only so much time in a day, which could lead to not having time to spend quality time with each spouse and could further lead to jealousies.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

In the most general sense I absolutely support the right to choose polygamy over other alternatives. Morally I don't agree with it. But even more objectionable to me is that anyone thinks it is the government's business to regulate these sorts of personal choices. In fact, the more I think about this the more I am inclined to think that people will one day view such laws as laughable and arcane. I already do.

Aside from religious doctrine why is this illegal? The same with gay marriage. There is no social or legal justification for such laws other than mob rule.

 

[nfsh]

Hi all,

I am first time poster. Th thing is, this Ad Vingerhoets is the director of my thesis. Not about this topic, a totally different one. Indeed he caused quite a stirr in my country but I have to say this:

he was wrongly quoted. As simple as that.

I work in Barcelona and I hadn´t received an email from him in some days. I just mailed him asking if he is okay (unaware of the discussion in the Netherlands) and he answered me some "imbecil" journalist can´t read, and that´s why he put an absurd claim in my mouth that I never said or would say. And now for days everybody is chasing me, what a situation!

Anyway, believe me you can´t get closer to him than through me since we work very closely together. Sorry to take the fun out of the discussion but he is wrongly qouted, that´s all!

Greetings,

NFSH

 

[Monique]

I'm glad you clear that up!

I know media can run away with information and twist the story, did the professor not ask for a correcting statement by the paper?

I never trust scientific research that is quoted in a newspaper, they never get the facts right or overstate the weight of the research.

 

[nfsh]

I'm glad you clear that up!

I know media can run away with information and twist the story, did the professor not ask for a correcting statement by the paper?

I never trust scientific research that is quoted in a newspaper, they never get the facts right or overstate the weight of the research.

I don´t know. I was being interviewed by the same journalist (from the university paper) and he also made some big mistakes. I felt very bad as he claimed I iniated the research while I didn´t and just was offered the change to participate in it but the damage was done. In that case he, Vingerhoets, said "nevermind, I think I never read an popular media article about my work that was 100% correct.

I am not sure if he asked for a rectification, but he doesn´t have to since the whole dutch media is chasing him and he has plenty of opportunities to give his correct opinion (and trying to sell his book, haha!)

By the way, what is this forum about? I stumbled upon it when Vingerhoets told me he was in trouble and did a Google search to see who was saying what about it.

I am a member of Airdisaster.com, they use the same forum software making it easy to post here!

Best regards!

 

[Moonbear]

I'm glad you clear that up!

I know media can run away with information and twist the story, did the professor not ask for a correcting statement by the paper?

I never trust scientific research that is quoted in a newspaper, they never get the facts right or overstate the weight of the research.

That's true, the way media twists stories. If I'm really curious, I look up the original paper to find out what they really said. Reporters don't understand science and really can mangle what's written. And, worst, even if the reporter is careful and fact-checks and confirms with the scientists for accuracy, their editor might still decide to change things that change the meaning and the reporter doesn't know until it comes out in print. (Is it any wonder we have two threads going in politics on bias in the media?)

 

[Moonbear]

By the way, what is this forum about? I stumbled upon it when Vingerhoets told me he was in trouble and did a Google search to see who was saying what about it.

Welcome! This is a forum for science and science education, with a primary emphasis on physics, but we have the other sciences represented. It's mostly aimed toward students (a place to get homework help or have ideas clarified, without someone just doing the work for you), but there are quite a few professional scientists here as well. There's a social sciences and biology section here. If you're doing psychology research, you may want to join in whichever of those is more relevant to your research area. Right now, you're in our General Discussion area, which is where we put the stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else (and is often more for entertainment than serious discussion).

 

[nfsh]

Welcome! This is a forum for science and science education

Aha, then now I understand you wrote:

If I'm really curious, I look up the original paper to find out what they really said.

I thought "woh, this person knows his way around in academic affairs!"


Well, let me introduce myself then:

I am 29, associate lecturer at the Autonomous University of Barcelona and currently doing my PhD-thesis on the psychosomatic sequelae of secrecy. I lecture Psychology, mainly Personality Psychology although my research interests are more in the field of Health Psychology and Medical Psychology.

I´ll scroll through the forums as soon as I have some time. Although physics are not particularly my cup of tea, I always like a good discussion about academic affairs, you always learn something new!

 

[Danger]

Multiple husbands make much more sense!

No way! I'm glad to say that the days of 'sloppy seconds' are well behind me.

Gale and franz, sittin' in a tree...

I only tried it in a tree once, and believe me, I don't recommend it!

There already are a number of companes that offer on premises day care for their worker's children.

'Day Care' is what Ziplock bags and freezers were invented for.

(and is often more for entertainment than serious discussion).

And depravement! Let's not forget depravement! That's why I'm here.

this person knows his way around in academic affairs!"

Hey Moonbaby! He called you a his! Maybe you should direct him to the photo thread...

 

[nfsh]

Hey Moonbaby! He called you a his! Maybe you should direct him to the photo thread...

Am on my way...