The Evolution of Apes and Humans

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the evolution of humans and apes, exploring the misconceptions surrounding Darwin's theory of evolution, the divergence of species, and the implications of evolutionary theory on future species development. Participants engage in both conceptual clarification and debate regarding the historical context of Darwin's views and the current understanding of evolutionary biology.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the idea that humans evolved from apes, questioning why some apes still exist today while others evolved into humans.
  • Others clarify that humans and modern apes share a common ancestor rather than humans evolving directly from apes.
  • A participant notes that the humanoid line diverged from the chimp line about 6 million years ago, leading to different evolutionary paths based on environmental adaptations.
  • Concerns are raised about the portrayal of Darwin's views in a documentary, with some arguing it misrepresents his position on human evolution.
  • There is a discussion about the appropriateness of a historian presenting a documentary on Darwin, with differing opinions on whether this impacts the credibility of the content.
  • One participant emphasizes that evolution does not imply a linear progression from "inferior" to "superior," highlighting the randomness of evolutionary outcomes.
  • Speculation arises about the potential for future species to evolve and coexist with humans, with concerns about human competition and extinction of emerging intelligent species.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of Darwin's theories and the implications of evolution. There is no consensus on whether the documentary accurately represents Darwin's views or the current understanding of evolution.

Contextual Notes

Some participants point out that the documentary's focus on Darwin's life may not align with contemporary evolutionary science, raising questions about the accuracy of its claims regarding human evolution.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying evolutionary biology, history of science, or those curious about the misconceptions surrounding human evolution and the implications of evolutionary theory.

  • #31
Quote from the site:
Until recently, most classifications included only humans in this family

The inclusion of the great apes in the hominidae is surely a novelty and perhaps suggests a bias in the site? In any case if you go back to the Miocene, you should find a common ancestor for all the primates, no?
 
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  • #32
I thought we are descended from prehistoric apes, and so are modern apes? i.e. us and the apes have a common ancestor which was also an ape?
 
  • #33
Depends on what you mean by ape. I would agree that if we could see the common ancester of apes and humans we would surely call it an ape.
 
  • #34
The word ape is a tricky one because most people tend to associate chimps and those types of animals - not us. This was the mistake I made and consequently started this thread. But now I know that the word ape has a technical definition which is the superfamily Hominoidea.

From the evidence I have seen for the theory of evolution, it seems like a very supported theory. I don't understand why other theories like creationism can be so popular. I wonder if there are any biologists who are creationists. If there are none than clearly, it should not deserve as much respect as it does.
 
  • #35
I don't understand why other theories like creationism can be so popular.
Why can religion be so popular? Why is pseudoscience so popular?
 
  • #36
Mk said:
Why can religion be so popular? Why is pseudoscience so popular?

I see what you are getting at. But what I had in mind when using the word popular was how creationism is so popular as a scientific subject, so popular that it is encouraged to be taught in all schools as science. Creationsim is surely not a science and if they are going to teach it than it should be included in religion, not science.
 
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  • #37
pivoxa15 said:
I see what you are getting at. But what I had in mind when using the word popular was how creationism is so popular as a scientific subject, so popular that it is encouraged to be taught in all schools as science. Creationsim is surely not a science and if they are going to teach it than it should be included in religion, not science.

Yes, I have no problem with religion, I just don't approve of labelling it "science."
Chalk and cheese, anyone?
 
  • #38
pivoxa15 said:
The word ape is a tricky one because most people tend to associate chimps and those types of animals - not us. This was the mistake I made and consequently started this thread. But now I know that the word ape has a technical definition which is the superfamily Hominoidea.

You got it. Loosely using the word "ape" was part of the problem. The other was picturing evolution as a linear progression (of entire species) rather than a branching of variations. The divergence of one group doesn't mean the whole species has to go with it.

From the evidence I have seen for the theory of evolution, it seems like a very supported theory. I don't understand why other theories like creationism can be so popular.

Sometimes from misunderstanding (evolution is complex, often gets minor treatment in schools unless you specialize in biology, and is poorly taught in many states).

Sometimes from competing world views (e.g., faith based views of the world vs. evidence based). This of course ties into many religious beliefs (fundamentalist/orthodox religions in particular...other religions have accepted the theory of evolution).

I wonder if there are any biologists who are creationists. If there are none than clearly, it should not deserve as much respect as it does.

Not many. However, there is a broad spectrum of what "creationism" could include...from those who completely reject evolution to those who accept evolution with divine guidance. (typically, it refers to those who reject evolution)

Creationsim is surely not a science and if they are going to teach it than it should be included in religion, not science.

Exactly.:approve:
 
  • #39
Phobos said:
Not many. However, there is a broad spectrum of what "creationism" could include...from those who completely reject evolution to those who accept evolution with divine guidance. (typically, it refers to those who reject evolution)


Could you name professional biologists who reject evolution? I'd really like to know their reasons.
 
  • #40
pivoxa15 said:
Could you name professional biologists who reject evolution? I'd really like to know their reasons.

Most famous names (professors who wrote popular books on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design_movement" )...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Behe" ...professor of biochemistry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Wells" ...professor(?) of molecular and cell biology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_H._Kenyon" ...professor of biology

ID advocates proudly cite a list of 400 scientists who reject evolution...I'd be curious to see what fraction of that list is comprised of actual professional biologists. :smile:
 
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  • #41
No this is an alltocommon misconception.

apes are our "cousins" sotospeak
 
  • #42
NutriGrainKiller said:
No this is an alltocommon misconception.

apes are our "cousins" sotospeak

Objects that are classified as apes must belong to the superfamily Hominoidea. Many species belong to this superfamily. So yes some apes are our cousins such as chimps but we are also apes.
 

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