The Hamiltonian vs. the energy function

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves the mechanics of a system described by a Lagrangian, with specific tasks related to the energy function and Hamiltonian. Participants are exploring the differences between the Hamiltonian and the energy function, as well as the implications of their derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the expressions for the Hamiltonian and the energy function, questioning their differences and the implications of their derivatives. There is an attempt to clarify the use of the Legendre transform in this context.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with some participants providing clarifications about the differences between the Hamiltonian and the energy function. There is an exploration of the Legendre transform, but no consensus has been reached on the overall understanding of the concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working within the constraints of homework rules, focusing on theoretical understanding rather than practical application. There is a noted confusion regarding the relationship between the Hamiltonian and the energy function, as well as their respective derivatives.

Loxias
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Homework Statement



The mechanics of a system are described by the Lagrangian:
[tex]L = \frac{1}{2}\dot{x}^2 + \dot{x}t[/tex]

Homework Equations



(a) Write the Energy (Jacobi function) for the system.
(b) Show that [tex]\frac{dh}{dt} \neq \frac{\partial h}{\partial t}[/tex]
(c) Write an expression for the Hamiltonian of the system.
(d) Recall that [tex]\frac{dH}{dt} = \frac{\partial H}{\partial t}[/tex] allways.
explain why[tex]\frac{dH}{dt} = \frac{\partial H}{\partial t}, \frac{dh}{dt} \neq \frac{\partial h}{\partial t}[/tex] , even though H and h are equal in value.


The Attempt at a Solution



a. [tex]\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{x}} = \dot{x} + t[/tex]
and we get
[tex]h = \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{x}}\dot{x} - L = \frac{1}{2}\dot{x}^2[/tex]

b. [tex]\frac{\partial h}{\partial t} = 0, \frac{dh}{dt} \dot{x}\ddot{x}[/tex]

c. This is what I don't understand..
They both have the same expression... what is the difference between the two sections..
 
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Ah, but they don't have the same expression. The Hamiltonian ([itex]H[/itex]) is written in terms of the [itex]q[/itex]'s and [itex]p[/itex]'s, while the pre-Hamiltonian ([itex]h[/itex]) is written in terms of [itex]q[/itex]'s and [itex]\dot{q}[/itex]'s. Because of that little change, there is a difference.

In this case,

[tex] h(x,\dot{x},t)=\frac{1}{2}\dot{x}^2[/tex]

while

[tex] H(x,p_x,t)=\frac{1}{2}\left(p_x-t\right)^2[/tex]

where we used the Legendre transform (part a) to get the momentum (recall [itex]p_q=\partial L/\partial\dot{q}[/itex]).
 
Thank you for clarifying this.
Could you elaborate more about what you meant with the legendere transform?
 
Sure. The Legendre transform is a mathematical operation that transforms one set of coordinates into another set. In the case of Hamiltonian mechanics, you are turning velocity coordinates ([itex]\dot{q}[/itex]) into momentum coordinates ([itex]p[/itex]):

[tex] p_q=\frac{\partial L}{\partial\dot{q}}<br /> [/itex][/tex]
 
Thanks :smile:
 

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