The inconsistency of quantum nonlocality

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of quantum nonlocality, particularly in relation to Bell's theorem and its implications for quantum mechanics. Participants explore the inconsistencies of nonlocality theory, the validity of Bell's theorem, and the arguments presented by Joy Christian against it. The scope includes theoretical analysis and critiques of established interpretations within quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that there is a factual inconsistency in the nonlocality theory, citing that it is impossible to formulate quantum mechanics with local hidden variables.
  • Concerns are raised about the formal inconsistencies of nonlocality, including claims that nonlocality cannot be represented as a physical property and that Bell's inequality cannot be derived consistently.
  • One participant questions whether Joy Christian's critiques of Bell's theorem are valid, suggesting that Christian has a strong opposition to the theorem.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the post-statistical justification of quantum mechanics, indicating a belief that quantum mechanics may not be definitive and could be replaced by a broader theory.
  • There is a claim that the scientific consensus dismisses Joy Christian's arguments as nonsensical, with references to criticisms found in archives.
  • A later reply suggests that Bell's theorem can be disproven by presenting a dataset that is consistent with quantum mechanics while violating Bell's inequality.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of Bell's theorem and the arguments against it, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved within the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific papers and datasets, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the implications of these references and the definitions of key terms like nonlocality and locality.

yoda jedi
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Phys. Scr. 82 065002, 2010.

Is quantum mechanics nonlocal?

A factual inconsistency of the nonlocality theory is demonstrated via a careful analysis of the conceptual and formal contents of Bell's theorem and the inequalities associated with it. The conceptual inconsistency of the theory follows from the consideration that it is, in principle, impossible to formulate quantum mechanics in terms of local hidden variables. The formal inconsistency of the nonlocality theory follows from the facts that: (i) nonlocality is not a physical property that can be represented by a function or an operator; (ii) it is impossible to derive Bell's inequality in a mathematically consistent way; and (iii) Bell's definition of locality is incorrect. Therefore, Bell's theorem cannot serve as the foundation for the introduction of the nonlocality notion in quantum mechanics.
 
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yoda jedi said:
Phys. Scr. 82 065002, 2010.

Is quantum mechanics nonlocal?

A factual inconsistency of the nonlocality theory is demonstrated via a careful analysis of the conceptual and formal contents of Bell's theorem and the inequalities associated with it. The conceptual inconsistency of the theory follows from the consideration that it is, in principle, impossible to formulate quantum mechanics in terms of local hidden variables. The formal inconsistency of the nonlocality theory follows from the facts that: (i) nonlocality is not a physical property that can be represented by a function or an operator; (ii) it is impossible to derive Bell's inequality in a mathematically consistent way; and (iii) Bell's definition of locality is incorrect. Therefore, Bell's theorem cannot serve as the foundation for the introduction of the nonlocality notion in quantum mechanics.
I notice the author has withdrawn 'On the reality of EPR paradox' as mentioned here: http://arxiv.org/find/quant-ph/1/au:+Ruza_J/0/1/0/all/0/1"
Any opinions whether Joy Christian, who really has it in for Bell's theorem, has a solid case to make? http://arxiv.org/find/quant-ph/1/au:+Christian_J/0/1/0/all/0/1?skip=0&query_id=510870486b136afc"
 
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Q-reeus said:
I notice the author has withdrawn 'On the reality of EPR paradox' as mentioned here: http://arxiv.org/find/quant-ph/1/au:+Ruza_J/0/1/0/all/0/1"
Any opinions whether Joy Christian, who really has it in for Bell's theorem, has a solid case to make? http://arxiv.org/find/quant-ph/1/au:+Christian_J/0/1/0/all/0/1?skip=0&query_id=510870486b136afc"

Interesting.

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I think there is an inconsistency, i do not believe much in a post statistical justification,
besides, in some settings, while in others not.
apart quantum mechanics is not definitive, maybe will be replaced by other wider theory.
 
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Q-reeus said:
Any opinions whether Joy Christian, who really has it in for Bell's theorem, has a solid case to make? http://arxiv.org/find/quant-ph/1/au:+Christian_J/0/1/0/all/0/1?skip=0&query_id=510870486b136afc"

Yes, the scientific consensus is that Joy's argument makes no sense. You can locate some of the criticism in the archives. Please recall that Bell can be proven incorrect simply by providing a 3 setting dataset which is consistent with QM at angles at which the inequality is violated. That should convince you there is no disproof.
 
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