The Poincaré Group and Geodesics in Minkowski Spacetime

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between the Poincaré group and geodesics in Minkowski spacetime. Participants explore the definitions and implications of these concepts within the context of flat spacetime and Riemannian geometry.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants define the Poincaré group as the group of isometries of Minkowski spacetime, emphasizing its role in distance-preserving maps.
  • Others clarify that a geodesic is a curve in a Riemann manifold that generalizes the concept of a straight line, being both the straightest and shortest path between two points.
  • It is noted that Poincaré symmetry applies specifically to flat Minkowski spacetime and does not extend to arbitrary Riemann manifolds.
  • One participant argues that Poincaré symmetry connects observers on different worldlines, regardless of whether those worldlines are geodesics.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the possibility of forming a group from geodesics, suggesting there is no natural group operation applicable to them.
  • A suggestion is made to characterize Poincaré transformations as symmetries that preserve the set of geodesics in Minkowski space.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of geodesics and their relationship to the Poincaré group, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on specific definitions of geodesics and the Poincaré group, which may not be universally accepted. The discussion does not resolve the implications of these definitions or their application across different geometrical contexts.

Demon117
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The poincare' group is the group of isometries of Minkowski spacetime, in a nutshell. In terms of an actual physical definition it is the group of all distance preserving maps between metric-spaces in Minkowski spacetime. What is the difference between this and geodesics?
 
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matumich26 said:
The poincare' group is the group of isometries of Minkowski spacetime, in a nutshell. In terms of an actual physical definition it is the group of all distance preserving maps between metric-spaces in Minkowski spacetime. What is the difference between this and geodesics?
A geodesic is a curve in an arbitrary curved Riemann manifold generalizing the "straight line" in flat space. A geodesic in a Riemann manifold is both the straightest curve and the shortest curve connecting two points A and B. Poincare symmetry is not a symmetry of arbitrary Riemann manifolds but a symmetry of flat Minkowski spacetime space only.
 
Poincare symmetry connects observers on different worldlines in a flat space-time, irrespective whether the worldlines are geodesics or not. One observer describes physics through one system of space-time coordinates x, another has x' for that. x and x' are linked through Poincare transformations. Observer's motion needn't be along a geodesic.
 
Geodesics...don't form a group, they are just curves in the space-time. I don't believe there is a natural group operation that would make geodesics into a group...
 
Maybe the OP is asking about characterizing the Poincare transformations as [determinant 1] symmetries that preserve the set of geodesics of Minkowski space.
 
Last edited:
tom.stoer said:
A geodesic is a curve in an arbitrary curved Riemann manifold generalizing the "straight line" in flat space. A geodesic in a Riemann manifold is both the straightest curve and the shortest curve connecting two points A and B. Poincare symmetry is not a symmetry of arbitrary Riemann manifolds but a symmetry of flat Minkowski spacetime space only.

Very nice. This does it.
 

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