The Road to Reality By Penrose?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the book "The Road to Reality" by Roger Penrose, focusing on its accessibility and the mathematical concepts presented within. Participants share their experiences with the book, express concerns about their mathematical background, and seek advice on whether they can understand the material. The scope includes personal reflections, challenges faced while reading, and recommendations for supplementary resources.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express uncertainty about their ability to understand the book due to their limited mathematical background, citing previous knowledge from other popular science books.
  • Others mention that the book is challenging and may not be suitable for readers without a strong foundation in mathematics, particularly calculus.
  • A participant notes that Penrose provides advice in the preface on how to approach the book, suggesting that readers can still gain insights even if they skip over complex mathematical details.
  • Some participants share their experiences of struggling with specific concepts, such as Euclidean and hyperbolic geometry, indicating that the book may not be easily comprehensible for all readers.
  • There are mixed opinions on whether the book can be understood by laypeople, with some asserting that it was intended for a broader audience while others disagree based on their experiences.
  • Several participants seek recommendations for supplementary materials to help bridge the gap in their mathematical knowledge to better understand the book.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not agree on the book's accessibility; some believe it can be understood by laypeople, while others argue that it is too advanced for those without a solid mathematical background. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the book's intended audience and its actual comprehensibility.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention varying levels of mathematical knowledge and experience, which affects their understanding of the book. There is also a recognition of the book's depth and the potential need for additional resources to fully grasp the concepts presented.

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"The Road to Reality" By Penrose?

i live in the US and decided to get this book off of amazon.com. i was wondering if anyone has read, or atleast skimmed (its pretty big) through it and would mind telling me if its a good buy(although if it isnt, its a little late now :-p).

also, I am pretty new to most of the theories. all of my knowledge has come from "A Brief History of Time", "The Elegant Universe", "The Universe in a Nutshell", and "Hyperspace". Do you think i could plow my way through this book or would it be way over my head? thanks.
 
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Gecko said:
i live in the US and decided to get this book off of amazon.com. i was wondering if anyone has read, or atleast skimmed (its pretty big) through it and would mind telling me if its a good buy(although if it isnt, its a little late now :-p).

also, I am pretty new to most of the theories. all of my knowledge has come from "A Brief History of Time", "The Elegant Universe", "The Universe in a Nutshell", and "Hyperspace". Do you think i could plow my way through this book or would it be way over my head? thanks.

It apparently takes no prisoners on math. I haven't seen a copy but it is apparently a great book if (a) You want something on the coffee table to impress the neighbors, or (b)you already know the subjects it covers. YMMD.
 
well, I am taking calculus in math right now. how high up does it go? and what's YMMD mean?
 
Here's another acronym: SIAS (suck it and see). Read the preface carefully as Penrose gives good advice on how to tackle the book. It's good that you are doing calculus, he kind of skips over that saying (in paraphrase) "the differential of x^2 is 2x, read this 1000 page calculus book if you want more details". A reader without calculus could just accept this and still get a lot out of the chapter on calculus. If you take that approach to the harder mathematics, then you should be fine. There are a lot of reviews and links from the following URL that may help give you more persepective on the book. Also the reviews on amazon.com are coming in every day and it's real fun seeing the mixed opinions (one autodidact loves it, a PhD student can't understand it...)

http://www.321books.co.uk/reviews/the-road-to-reality-by-roger-penrose.htm

Keep on ploughing, go round rocky ground!
 
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I'm still only in high school and I recently got this book. I got up to Ch2 (yes I got the book very recently) and I can't seem to understand what he's saying. Every now and then I catch on, but I always end up getting confused, trying to understand everything he is saying. Is this suppose to happen for someone like me, or is anyone suppose to be able to plough through the book without any prior math knowledge and be able to understand every single thing he says if they're smart enough?

Right now I don't even understand what he means by euclidean geometry and hyperbolic geometry. We have never learned anything about that at school (atleast I don't think I have) and the only thing that rings a bell is the word hyperbola which, to me, only means 1/x and 1/(x^2) and that's it.
 
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Gecko said:
also, I am pretty new to most of the theories. all of my knowledge has come from "A Brief History of Time", "The Elegant Universe", "The Universe in a Nutshell", and "Hyperspace". Do you think i could plow my way through this book or would it be way over my head? thanks.

I have to say I LOVE the book. I'm reading it now cover to cover for the second time (I'm at chapter 28 for the moment). But, but... I don't know what kind of students Penrose got over the floor, but clearly the slope is steep. As SA says, it gives a great perspective on stuff you already know. Well, I *did* learn stuff in the book. I did learn about fibre bundles that were not tangent bundles.

It has no comparing to A brief history of time. Maybe it comes a little closer to "the elegant universe", but I still think it is WAY harder. That is because Penrose doesn't just want to talk ABOUT stuff, he want to teach you the stuff, too, starting from somewhere in high school and ending as a PhD in theoretical physics. Honestly, if it were that easy, you wouldn't need 10 years for that, would you ? Just read a book and it's ok ?

Nevertheless, I think it is worth to read it, and to try to understand what you can.
 
Does anyone know of a good book that would guide me through the mathematics section of this book? My mathematics knowledge isn't up to par to comprehend some of the stuff Roger Penrose is talking about.
 
Erzeon said:
Does anyone know of a good book that would guide me through the mathematics section of this book? My mathematics knowledge isn't up to par to comprehend some of the stuff Roger Penrose is talking about.

I'd say just wait until you've learned it in a degree course and read what you can.

When I first got the book I read Chapters 17 and 18 (I think these are the Special Relativity and Classical Field Theory chapters), I understood what he was saying about Maxwell's Electromagnetism, but I didn' have a clue about what he was saying about General Relativity, since I didn't know it.

Know after learning some General Relativity from Schutz and Carroll, I think the chapter contains some very "deep" information about Classical Field theories and what they are trying to say. Particularly when he compares terms in the field equation to terms in Maxwell's equations.
(Such as the metric being the equivalent of the potential, the Christoffel symbols being the equivalent of the Field, e.t.c.)

I think it's a great book for seeing connections between things and getting a new point of view on things you already know.
 
Oh I see, I was under the impression that this book could be completely understood by any layman. Guess I was wrong.
 
  • #10
Erzeon said:
Oh I see, I was under the impression that this book could be completely understood by any layman. Guess I was wrong.
It was intended that way, but I don't think it actually works.
 
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  • #11
Erzeon said:
Oh I see, I was under the impression that this book could be completely understood by any layman. Guess I was wrong.

That's what Penrose himself claims, but as I said, I don't know what kind of students he got over the floor during his career as a professor to have made him think that this were possible ! You'd start out as a high school student and you'd end as a PhD in theoretical physics if you'd read his book as he intended :bugeye:
 
  • #12
Guess I'm going to have to keep this book for another 5 years before I'll understand most of it:( It'll probably be thrown out by then.
 

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