Understanding the Limit Definition of the Derivative: A Search for Mistakes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the limit definition of the derivative, specifically focusing on the product rule for derivatives. Participants are examining a proof attempt and identifying potential mistakes in the reasoning and application of limits.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant attempts to prove the product rule for derivatives using the limit definition, but expresses uncertainty about where their mistake lies.
  • Another participant points out that the limits involved in the proof do not necessarily exist, which could invalidate the reasoning.
  • A hint is provided suggesting a different approach to the problem, indicating that the original proof may be flawed.
  • Further clarification is offered regarding the conditions under which limits can be split, emphasizing that both limits must exist for the manipulations to be valid.
  • A participant acknowledges their earlier confusion, indicating a realization of the complexity involved in the proof.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the proof attempt contains mistakes related to the existence of limits and the conditions under which limit properties can be applied. However, there is no consensus on the specific nature of the mistakes or how to correct them.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential non-existence of certain limits, which affects the validity of the proof. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps or assumptions involved in the proof attempt.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in calculus, particularly those studying derivatives and the application of limit definitions in proofs, may find this discussion relevant.

limitkiller
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that is too sad
it have been 2 days and i coudnt find out where do i make mistake.
i wanted to prove:" (f(x)*g(x))'= g(x)*f(x)'+ g(x)'*f(x)". so:
(f(x)*g(x))'= lim h→0 ((f(x+h)*g(x+h)-f(x)*g(x))/h)

=lim h→0 ((f(x+h)*g(x+h))/h) - lim h→0 (f(x)*g(x))/h)

=[lim h→0 ((f(x+h))/h)*lim h→0 (g(x+h))] - [ lim h→0 ((f(x))/h) * lim h→0 (g(x))]

=[lim h→0 ((f(x+h))/h)* g(x)] - [ lim h→0 ((f(x))/h) * (g(x)]

= g(x)*[lim h→0 ((f(x+h))/h) - lim h→0 ((f(x))/h)]

= g(x)*[lim h→0 ((f(x+h)-f(x))/h)]

= g(x)*f(x)'
then (f(x)*g(x))'= g(x)*f(x)' !(?)!
 
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The limits lim h→0 ((f(x+h))/h) and lim h→0 ((f(x))/h) does not necessarily exist.
 
Hint:
0=f(x+h)g(x)-f(x+h)(gx)
 
Just to expand on what other people have said, rules like "The limit of the difference is the difference of the limits" only apply when both limits exist. So it is not true that
\lim_{h\to 0}\frac{f(x+h)g(x+h)-f(x)g(x)}{h}= \lim_{h\to 0}\frac{f(x+h)g(x+x)}{h} -\lim_{h\to 0}\frac{f(x)g(x)}{h} = \infty - \infty
(the last equality is assuming neither f nor g is 0 or has a 0 limit at x)
Likewise, splitting up limits like that only works when the limits each exist for addition, multiplication and division. The limit of the denominator also can't be 0 in the case of division.
 
thanks
that was so silly.
 

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