The thought of death ever hit you?

[humanino]

So that's where the idea for Groundhog Day came from: Nietzche. Who knew?

I don't know the Groundhog Day !

 

[zoobyshoe]

I don't know the Groundhog Day !

It's a comedy film with Bill Murray: obnoxious man gets caught in a time loop where he's condemned to live the same day over and over again until he becomes a nice guy.

 

[Gokul43201]

I mean.. for all the religions.. not all can be right.. and if one of them was right.. what happens to the other millions of people that don't follow that religion? They all just go to hell? I mean the the 'hell'.

Only Christianity and Islam condemn non-believers to Hell. I don't know for sure about Judaism. But I do know that Hinduism and Buddhism don't send you to Hell just because you follow aother religion.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Only Christianity and Islam condemn non-believers to Hell.

I'm not sure if this is true. The belief, per se, is secondary to the fact of living your life according to the ethics prescribed. In other words, a person who lived ethically without a belief in the details of the given religion would not be condemned out of hand. (These religions do assume that without belief there will be no ethical behaviour;"Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die.")

I don't know for sure about Judaism. But I do know that Hinduism and Buddhism don't send you to Hell just because you follow aother religion.

Judaism doesn't have an eternal hell. They have a thing called "gehenna" which is a temporary hell, for purification purposes. (Jews also believe in reincarnation for purification purposes. A person may be reborn as a cat, if they have just that one little thing to work out.) I think this is where the Catholic "purgatory" notion came from. Buddhism has no afterlife: the reincarnation they speak of is metaphorical- a person is "reborn" many times during this life. Hinduism, I think, has the "Bardo", also a kind of purgatory where a person confronts their worst fears, and which is non-denominational. It is not a punishment for not believing. It is some kind of thing you have to go through to get you ready for your next incarnation.

 

[Evo]

:surprise:
Would you live differently if the alter life is just your same life again and again and again and... (Nietzsche in Zarathoustra)

Oh, there would be a BIG difference, I don't want to relive this life.

 

[Monique]

..I wish I could relive the last few years like a record stuck in a track.. minus the last year :)

 

[humanino]

Oh, there would be a BIG difference, I don't want to relive this life.

me neither

No , I have to work on it :surprise:

 

[Chrono]

Oh, there would be a BIG difference, I don't want to relive this life.

Nor do I. I shudder at the thought.

 

[Euphoriet]

Evo, I don’t know if I would be living my life differently if I knew for sure there was no after life... since I don’t believe in one now, I guess I would live it the same way I do now.. I live my life as best I can and I can only look back at all the mistakes I made and do nothing, especially since I won’t have a chance to live again (according to my belief of no after life).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How about the rest of you guys?... the ones that do believe in an after life.. IF YOU guys knew for sure there was nothing .. would you continue to live your life the same way you do now?

You guys know what? I envy those that do believe in an after life, it must be a beautiful thing. Then again I think about it and I see this belief of an afterlife as something that people have just because they can’t accept the idea of there just being NOTHING.I mean there has to be something right?.. or does there? I can see how this idea of no after life can be devastating to most. Why live in misery when you can live with hope.. right?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The book Ivan talks about seems interesting.. but then again…. the brain is a powerful thing and we don’t fully understand it to comprehend what is REALLY happening to those people… no one really knows for sure. (hehe.. this makes me WONDER SO MUCH on what Einstein could have possibly seen and especially what did he say to that nurse just before he died… maybe he found the link between all physics/sciences, right there and then, … or maybe he just saw his angel?)

I don’t know… sometimes I wonder too much about this stuff.. and it can get very interesting... and confusing.

I question things because… well, we know there’s the physical aspect of stuff.. matter…. but what about the dark matter…we don’t really know what it is…. .. couldn’t that be ‘an after life’ of some sort… maybe it’s the lost souls.. or maybe its “heaven”…. Maybe some people are born again and others aren’t….

Also, with all the advances we’ve had in science… cloning and all.. how does religion stand side to side with this… scientists are basically playing god… how do you explain the fact that they are able to do this… one day we might be able to do more than just cloning….

The only hope of an "after life" I have would be for scientist to be able to somehow “revive” people.. like the frozen bodies of the dead that are being kept. To have those people brought back, I can see that as a possibility … and I mean why not?... Umm.. what would you do if this was possible? It makes you wonder doesn’t it?

Then I think about that also, and it gets scary.. imagine a world where this is possible… you can revive people… what next… scientist reach the point where they can ‘transfer’ old minds to new bodies. People will be cloning themselves, and being basically reborn. You keep all your memories… and maybe that’s how humans will one day reach the full capacity of the mind (brain)… over a long enough period of time this could be very possible… from one body do the next…the mind would keep on growing and the bodies would just be left behind…
Now would this be morally correct? I mean it would always be your own body .. UNLESS you were able to choose a totally different body .. what then?

Ok I could keep on going but I’m going to stop there =-P.

 

[Dagenais]

Yes, I have thought about it. I do believe that there is an afterlife. Not necessarily a heaven/hell type place, but consciousness continuing I guess

That would be torture. You're conscious in a box, 10 feet under the ground but you can't move, no where to go, nobody to talk to - completely trapped for eternity.

What I meant is that if the thought of there being NOTHING at all after death ever hit you really hard?

It'll suck, but at least you're relieved. There's nothing after that - you're dead. Nothing to worry about.

Like Jerry says about George being stressed out, "George will be relieved when he's dead."

The only thing I've really thought about dying, I mean me dying, is that who would actually come to the funeral. I wonder about stuff like that.

Again, from Seinfeld, Elaine, "I bet you I won't even get half of this attendance at my funeral."

Scary to think about that...

I believe in an afterlife. I also believe that in some way we are accountable for our actions.

I agree about the afterlife thing. I think there has to be something more than just this. Living and then dying. The heaven/hell belief is worth putting faith into since it would be the 'best' afterlife (if you go to heaven), as opposed to reincarnation, which would have no point being born, dead, born, dead etc.

I however, don't they we're accountable for our actions. Karma and things of that nature were made up to keep our behaviors in check, IMO.

 

[meteor]

I find funny when people say "I believe that there's an afterlife...". I can believe many things, but it's because I have some data in my brain and can evaluate consequences.
For example, if I'm seeing a match of football between Manchester U. and a team of the Faeroe Islands I can say: I believe that Manchester will win because all the times that has played against a team of Faeroe Islands has win
Or if I have let a milk bottle opened many days I can say: I believe that the milk is in bad state!
But is because I rely in past experiences. I don't remember any experience of having died before. So how can I believe in other life?
I even have not any memories of before I was born! I can't imagine any maquiavellian creator that has us in this world only for fun and then want to recover our souls . Why should he/she do it? Would you do it if you were a creator?
Death is a real thing. You don't win nothing complaining about it or making false illusions. You have to find a method to fight against it

 

[donnie]

You have to find a method to fight against it

Hello everyone

Why fight at all? It brings up the question of destiny I guess. I think learning to embrace the advent of death helps you deal with the value of life. You know that saying that you can never know you're full if you've never been hungry? Yin and Yang. Balance and stuff.

 

[meteor]

Why fight at all?

Um... do you not enjoy everyday of the music you listen, the talks with your friends, the cokes that you drink? Are you sure that you want to lose it all?

 

[donnie]

Whatever we do today should be to prepare us for tomorrow. That's progression into the future. I see death as part of that progression. Not necessarily an end. Just part of the preparation.

 

[merak]

Do you ever visualize .. just dieing .. and nothing after... you know... no rencarnation.. no after life... its just over.

Sometimes I wish I beleived in some of this stuff...

When I try to remember what is was like, before I was born there is only darkness. perhaps eons of darkness. Then, there was the light and this life. here I am!
when I die, I expect it to be back, to the darkness once again.I wonder how long the darkness will last this time...forever? will the light ever return?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

How about the rest of you guys?... the ones that do believe in an after life.. IF YOU guys knew for sure there was nothing .. would you continue to live your life the same way you do now?

Absolutely not; that is to say that I feel that my choices in beliefs do directly influence my behavior. I have never been what I would call a “bad person” but I have flip-flopped between belief systems at times. Beyond a doubt, for me at least, my expectations of death greatly affect my outlook and perception of life. Ultimately I think this must affect my choices - I mean when it comes to the relatively hard choices: Should I report this $5000 of income that I could probably, easily hide? Should I bill the customer for a fair price, or should I bill what I can get away with by lying? When someone "gets me", should I "get them back"? When Tsu asks if I was playing with my slinky again, do I hide it in my pocket or fess up?

Coincidentally; a recent post of mine in the Social Sciences Forum:

Belief in hell boosts economic growth

WASHINGTON - Economists searching for reasons why some nations are richer than others have found that those with a wide belief in hell are less corrupt and more prosperous, according to a report by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis.[continued]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5529195/

In short, for me it seems a clear choice: Do I live for the here and now, or do I live according to some greater principle that I believe is real. Frankly, the purely philosophical arguments for being good fail in my opinion. When my beliefs [in an afterlife] have been nearly or completely nonexistent, I found that nothingness is not so bothersome as I once expected, but the motivation to always live better is gone. I could definitely make some “smarter” choices, as opposed to what I consider the right choices. This not to say that anyone is always right; especially not me, but how hard we try is the point. I try harder when I choose to believe in a greater purpose that is real.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

This is not to be confused with a special purpose. Steve Martin fans may laugh now.

 

[zoobyshoe]

..I wish I could relive the last few years like a record stuck in a track.. minus the last year :)

This would only work if you had absolute amnesia for all previous repetitions. If you had the vaguest recollection of the previous runs around the track you would hate every minute of it.

 

[zoobyshoe]

When I try to remember what is was like, before I was born there is only darkness. perhaps eons of darkness.

I don't think so. You can't remember what you didn't exist to be aware of. You don't remember any darkness. If any such memory is authentic it is from the womb. It is impossible for you to have any memories from pre-conception.

 

[recon]

When I was six, I went through a period of wondering how life was like before I was born. During that period, I had recurring dreams of a long boat rowed by 20 very muscular men. I think it was someplace near Thailand/Laos/Vietnam. I also believed that we don't ever leave our bodies after we die, but stay on as conscious as ever, if not even more so. This means that we spend the rest of eternity confined in a casket, unknowingly conscious to people above us.

 

[Euphoriet]

What about people who don't get burried... and are burned ect.

 

[recon]

I was six at the time, and had no concept of the idea of burning a corpse.

 

[Monique]

This would only work if you had absolute amnesia for all previous repetitions. If you had the vaguest recollection of the previous runs around the track you would hate every minute of it.

Actually I really don't think so. I thought about it, even if I'd remember every detail I wouldn't be bothered by the repetitions.. it was just too interesting

I agree generally that would be true, I'd hate going through childhood/high school/college having memories of the previous runs. Oh no, I'd avoid going through that again

 

[Monique]

Does anyone know the song Hello from Evanescence? It's interesting.. I don't quite understand it completely, but here are the lyrics:

Playground school bell rings again
Rain clouds come to play again
Has no one told you she´s not breathing?
Hello, I'm your mind giving you
Someone to talk to
Hello

If I smile and don´t believe
Soon I know I´ll wake from this dream
Don´t try to fix me, I´m not broken
Hello, I'm the lie living for you so you can hide
Don´t cry

Suddenly I know I´m not sleeping
Hello, I´m still here
All that´s left of yesterday

I think it is about a girl that just died, she thinks she'll wake up again, they are trying to resuscitate her, to which she says she's not dead, suddenly she realizes she is dead and tries to tell the people she's still there.. the vocals are quite powerfull at the end..

 

[jtolliver]

Does anyone know the song Hello from Evanescence? It's interesting.. I don't quite understand it completely, but here are the lyrics:

Playground school bell rings again
Rain clouds come to play again
Has no one told you she´s not breathing?
Hello, I'm your mind giving you
Someone to talk to
Hello

If I smile and don´t believe
Soon I know I´ll wake from this dream
Don´t try to fix me, I´m not broken
Hello, I'm the lie living for you so you can hide
Don´t cry

Suddenly I know I´m not sleeping
Hello, I´m still here
All that´s left of yesterday

I think it is about a girl that just died, she thinks she'll wake up again, they are trying to resuscitate her, to which she says she's not dead, suddenly she realizes she is dead and tries to tell the people she's still there.. the vocals are quite powerfull at the end..

It sounds to me more like the person being sung to(the "you" from the song) believes that her friend is still alive. That would explain the lines "Hello, I am your mind giving you / someone to talk to" and "Hello, I'm the lie living for you so you can hide".

 

[Dagenais]

This means that we spend the rest of eternity confined in a casket, unknowingly conscious to people above us.

Does anyone here actually want that to happen?

I had recurring dreams of a long boat rowed by 20 very muscular men.

 

[BoulderHead]

Do you ever visualize .. just dieing .. and nothing after... you know... no rencarnation.. no after life... its just over.

Yes, I have. Not a lot to be said about the experience, even less the better you become at doing it.
...tranquil medicine, think I.

 

[Raven]

Do you ever visualize .. just dieing .. and nothing after... you know... no rencarnation.. no after life... its just over.

In short, yes.

Although I prefer to believe in a life after death, my fears of death are most certainly based on the idea that there isn't one. Therefore, subconsciously or consciously, I have visualized a death with no after-life based on my true fear of no longer existing.

Sure, some of us could fear that we are going to hell (or some other equivalent). But then again, going to heaven (or some other equivalent) doesn't exactly sound great either. Can you imagine living in a world where everything is perfect? Geez-- perfection sounds horrific in some ways.

I guess maybe, I have nothing to fear afterall...other than losing what I enjoy while being alive.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Therefore, subconsciously or consciously, I have visualized a death with no after-life based on my true fear of no longer existing.

People frequently envisage this to be something like sleeping with just the slightest amount of consciousness left to be aware of sone kind of long, boring stasis.

In fact, though, if there is no life after death, there will be absolutely no consciouness left to be aware of any "blankness" or lack of anything. No consciouness left to be aware of any loss.

To wonder about the experience of being dead if there is no afterlife is a contradiction.

Death, itself, is far less to be pondered about, or frightened of, than dying. A person with a terminal illness who has had some sort of short estimate placed on their remaining time is the most likely to fall into despair and depression, wasting, perhaps, the time they do have left, in ruminating about the fact it will soon be over.

Still being as alive as you can be, even knowing you'll probably be dead soon, is something that should be taught and encouraged, but which isn't.

There is a zen story about a monk who got chased off the edge of a cliff by a tiger. He happened to grab onto some roots growing from the cliff, which prevented him from falling instantly to his death, but as soon as he took stock of his situation he realized the roots were slowly giving way, and wouldn't hold him too much longer.

Suddenly he notices that growing from the cliff wall right in front of him, is a small strawberry plant with a beautiful strawberry on it. He picked it with his free hand and put it in his mouth. The last thought that ran through his mind before he died was: "That was the very best strawberry I have ever eaten."

 

[Gokul43201]

In fact, though, if there is no life after death, there will be absolutely no consciouness left to be aware of any "blankness" or lack of anything. No consciouness left to be aware of any loss.

You state this as fact ? I'm sure there will be hordes of people waiting in line to disagree. Half the posters on this thread believe in the continued existence of consciousnes beyond death.

I could have sworn you were involved in the John Edwards (the psychic, not the guy with the thumbs) thread under Scep/Debunking...wasn't there something about a Prof. who conducted dubious experiments (the HBO series or something like that) with mediums and concluded that consciousness does live on.