The world is unfair and all so why have an offspring?

[Math Is Hard]

In the late 50's/early 60's we were taught to huddle under our desks when we heard the air-raid siren. Ironically, we were less than 1/10th mile downstream of the largest hydro dam in the state - the fattest non-military target available in the state. Taking out that dam would have wiped out every river-town downstream, including the state capitol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6eQkBCLkIA"

 

[edward]

Birth rates are down in America. Quite apparently we are going through a historic change in attitude about having children.

 

[ice109]

for a bunch of smart people you sure don't infer well. obviously OP wasn't talking about fairness literally. i think the question was : "world sucks why have kids". and my answer would be why indeed.

 

[kingdomof]

Considering that the term fair is based off a model created by limited human logic, fairness doesn't exist in reality. The world is neither fair nor unfair, it just is. You procreate or do anything because you want to, period.

 

[DaveC426913]

for a bunch of smart people you sure don't infer well. obviously OP wasn't talking about fairness literally. i think the question was : "world sucks why have kids". and my answer would be why indeed.

I don't see how your paraphrasing changes anything whatsoever.

 

[kingdomof]

I don't see how your paraphrasing changes anything whatsoever.

I think he meant to offend us.

 

[Astronuc]

Exactly, while we were learning to survive a nuclear attack by covering the back of our necks with our arm, where was astronuc?

On the other side of the planet, 9,000+ miles (circumferentially) from Houston, in a nice quiet corner of the world.

I didn't learn about civil defence until 1966, after I started 4th grade in Houston. Didn't make sense given the destructive power of thermonuclear weapons, but the general population didn't seem to have much clue about the details.

In 6th grade, I was put on the school safety patrol - by meeting the requirements of academic standing and excellent conduct.

 

[Evo]

In 6th grade, I was put on the school safety patrol - by meeting the requirements of academic standing and excellent conduct.

I was also on the safety patrol, as a punishment for hating to get up early. It was called "Hall Patrol".

 

[Moonbear]

In the late 50's/early 60's we were taught to huddle under our desks when we heard the air-raid siren. Ironically, we were less than 1/10th mile downstream of the largest hydro dam in the state - the fattest non-military target available in the state. Taking out that dam would have wiped out every river-town downstream, including the state capitol.

Hmm...maybe you should have been learning how to use your desks as a flotation device?

 

[Astronuc]

He was living in a country that didn't have a dog in the fight.

While Australia was not a big dog in the cold war, they did have forces in Vietnam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Australia_during_the_Vietnam_War

I didn't hear about the war until I moved to the US.

 

[Astronuc]

I was also on the safety patrol, as a punishment for hating to get up early. It was called "Hall Patrol".

I did the "Hall Patrol" thing during fire drills, but the main duty was "Crossing Guard" at road intersections at the school boundaries. We had to hold 10 ft bamboo poles (with orange flags on them) parallel to the cross walks, so that kids could cross the streets.

 

[Moonbear]

I did the "Hall Patrol" thing during fire drills, but the main duty was "Crossing Guard" at road intersections at the school boundaries. We had to hold 10 ft bamboo poles (with orange flags on them) parallel to the cross walks, so that kids could cross the streets.

Our safety patrol had to stand with their hands out, two across, to block intersections. I was an alternate because there were too many kids in my class who qualified so we couldn't all do it (only so many of those bright orange belt/harness things to go around). After my friends started to do it, I realized I was the lucky one for getting "stuck" as an alternate...they had to get up extra early to get to school before the other kids, and then had to spend most of the morning while all the other kids arrived holding their arms up...they had very tired arms.

 

[turbo]

Hmm...maybe you should have been learning how to use your desks as a flotation device?

That would have been educational! Floating down the Kennebec River in a raging flood watching the water destroy towns and cities. I have a sneaking suspicion, though, that being only 1/10th of a mile from ground zero of even a small thermonuclear device might have it hard for me to "pull myself together" enough to enjoy the float. It's hard to keep one's head in such situations.

 

[Moonbear]

It's hard to keep one's head in such situations.

Literally.

 

[Astronuc]

To answer the OP, we have kids so they can have as much fun as we did growing up.

 

[Evo]

Our safety patrol had to stand with their hands out, two across, to block intersections. I was an alternate because there were too many kids in my class who qualified so we couldn't all do it (only so many of those bright orange belt/harness things to go around). After my friends started to do it, I realized I was the lucky one for getting "stuck" as an alternate...they had to get up extra early to get to school before the other kids, and then had to spend most of the morning while all the other kids arrived holding their arms up...they had very tired arms.

Oh my, we were the original "Geek Squad, the "Nerd Herd".

 

[Evo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6eQkBCLkIA"

You missed those atomic drills didn't you MIH?

Good thing you have found them so know you know how to avoid danger from an atomic blast.

 

[Math Is Hard]

You missed those atomic drills didn't you MIH?

Good thing you have found them so know you know how to avoid danger from an atomic blast.

I liked the "bad sunburn" analogy.

 

[tgt]

My wife and I made a conscious decision not to have children. We both came from large families of very modest means and we wanted to live a simpler life dedicated to one another. It might seem odd, but it made sense to us at the time and still does. When we wanted kids around, we borrowed them from our relatives and gave their parents an evening or a weekend to spend with each other. Our house has always been well-stocked with puzzles and non-electronic games, and kids are fascinated by astronomy, which I have been engaged in for decades. When we had ferrets, they were a real draw for the kids too, and some of the kids drove me to distraction mining my music collection. Some of my favorite old albums were their favorites too, including Simon and Garfunkel, Hendrix, early Jackson Browne, Bonnie Raitt... My wife and I never had kids, but we've helped raise quite a few.

That's smart. Nowadays, the younger generation are even more sneaky. Many choose to be single and when they need the opposite sex, they just take them out for a date. Probably, the majority aren't like that but it's getting more popular with shows like the 'Sex and the city'. What is the world coming to?

 

[tgt]

To answer the OP, we have kids so they can have as much fun as we did growing up.

But when they become adults they'll realize what you've (the parents) got them into. A deep, inescapable hole (unless if you kill yourself).

 

[tgt]

for a bunch of smart people you sure don't infer well. obviously OP wasn't talking about fairness literally. i think the question was : "world sucks why have kids". and my answer would be why indeed.

Considering that the term fair is based off a model created by limited human logic, fairness doesn't exist in reality. The world is neither fair nor unfair, it just is. You procreate or do anything because you want to, period.

By the term 'fairness', I was thinking of the authorities of the societies on earth, especially in the developed countries and realized that none act honestly and justfully for the people. That makes me feel sad because if the high ranks are corrupt, what hope is there for the rest of us? That is not to say the rest of us are all honest. We all are 'bad'. There is nothing we can do about it but what we can do is to stop this evil on Earth and that is by not producing more evil beings like ourselves. However, that is extremely difficult to do because we are programmed to produce more evil beings (another sign of us being evil?). It is unstoppable and inescapable for the ones who choose to live with all of it, that is for the ones who choose not to commit suicide which is most of us, unfortuntely.

 

[lisab]

But when they become adults they'll realize what you've (the parents) got them into. A deep, inescapable hole (unless if you kill yourself).

Not necessarily...I can honestly say I've never felt those feelings toward my parents. In fact, I'm quite happy to be alive !

 

[Moonbear]

But when they become adults they'll realize what you've (the parents) got them into. A deep, inescapable hole (unless if you kill yourself).

I really hope this is meant to be humorous and not serious. As I mentioned above, there are different definitions of fairness that people use. From my perspective, while life isn't always fair, I think most of the time it is. The person who works hardest usually gets the better education, the better job, the better pay, the promotion, etc. The person who is very lazy usually ends up lacking an education, out of work, living on barely any income. That all seems pretty fair. There are sometimes exceptions, and especially when other people try to redefine fairness as everyone should get the same rewards regardless of effort or skill. But overall, those things tend to balance out. It's the unexpected events and challenges that need to be overcome that make life fun. I really don't see any reason why someone should hesitate to have children. And, actually, the worse conditions get, the more incentive there is to have MORE children...better chances that one or two will survive to carry on your genes. That people have the luxury now to have only one or two children or to choose to have none because they can be relatively confident that putting their efforts into helping raise nieces and nephews will pay off for continuing to pass on genes from their family suggests things are pretty good.

 

[Borek]

Not necessarily...I can honestly say I've never felt those feelings toward my parents. In fact, I'm quite happy to be alive !

Interesting observation. Looking around I feel sorry for Junior (looks like his generation will be in much deeper sh** we are) but just as lisab I have never thought that my parents are responsible for the fact I am here and I can be disgusted by what I see.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

In my opinion, this rather weak philosophical reasoning against having children crumbles in the face of three and half billion years of evolution arguing in favor.

I remember in kindergarten that we had air raid drills in which we went to the basement and stood along the corridor with our heads cradled in our arms leaning against the wall. Our teacher said it was important to cover our heads in case of bombs. In my imagination, cannon balls were crashing in, leaving circular holes in the walls like in cartoons, and konking recalcitrant children on their noggins if they didn't cover them as instructed.

 

[tgt]

I really hope this is meant to be humorous and not serious. As I mentioned above, there are different definitions of fairness that people use. From my perspective, while life isn't always fair, I think most of the time it is. The person who works hardest usually gets the better education, the better job, the better pay, the promotion, etc. The person who is very lazy usually ends up lacking an education, out of work, living on barely any income. That all seems pretty fair. There are sometimes exceptions, and especially when other people try to redefine fairness as everyone should get the same rewards regardless of effort or skill. But overall, those things tend to balance out. It's the unexpected events and challenges that need to be overcome that make life fun. I really don't see any reason why someone should hesitate to have children. And, actually, the worse conditions get, the more incentive there is to have MORE children...better chances that one or two will survive to carry on your genes. That people have the luxury now to have only one or two children or to choose to have none because they can be relatively confident that putting their efforts into helping raise nieces and nephews will pay off for continuing to pass on genes from their family suggests things are pretty good.

I'm dead serious. Probably in a bad mood but it's the truth. From what you mention, I guess not everything is entirely bad. Probably there was a time when society was worse like during the time of Kings where everyone had to serve the King and if you didn't then that person is doomed no matter what.

 

[tgt]

In my opinion, this rather weak philosophical reasoning against having children crumbles in the face of three and half billion years of evolution arguing in favor.

You are absolutely right. If I was deeply in love enough with a girl, I'd be denying everything in this thread and I'd think instead the world is a perfect place. In fact, it did happen once but lasted less then 20 minutes. It ended because I saw something that made me upset.

The reasoning I gave was from purely a rational point of view. But most people don't behave or even like to think rationally.

 

[Evo]

The reasoning I gave was from purely a rational point of view. But most people don't behave or even like to think rationally.

Well, personally I think your line of thought leans more toward the irrational. I have a suggestion, read some history books, then you'll be thrilled to death about living in this time. You just haven't learned enough to be able to put things into perspective.

 

[cristo]

Well, personally I think your line of thought leans more toward the irrational. I have a suggestion, read some history books, then you'll be thrilled to death about living in this time. You just haven't learned enough to be able to put things into perspective.

... or just read or watch the news from time to time. tgt, I assure you that there are parts of the world where life is nothing like as cushy as it is in the US!

 

[DaveC426913]

I'd be denying everything in this thread and I'd think instead the world is a perfect place.

It doesn't need to be perfect.

We take from life what we choose. One can still love during wartime.