Theoretical question about wingless flight with a flight pack

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the theoretical power to weight ratio required for a wingless augmented portable flight pack (jetpack) to achieve horizontal flight. Participants explore the implications of thrust, weight, and the mechanics of flight without traditional wings.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a power to weight ratio above 1.0 is necessary for horizontal flight, indicating that thrust must exceed weight for flight to occur.
  • Another participant presents a mathematical relationship using the Pythagorean theorem to describe the horizontal thrust achievable from total thrust and weight.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the effectiveness of humans as "lifting bodies," questioning the practicality of achieving horizontal flight with a jetpack.
  • A participant mentions that a skydiver can reach horizontal speeds of 19 m/s while descending at 72 m/s, raising questions about the adequacy of such performance for landing.
  • There is a discussion about glide slopes, with one participant stating that any glide slope less than 1:1 is not necessarily bad, though this is contingent on the impact speed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness of humans as lifting bodies and the implications of glide slopes. There is no consensus on the practicality of achieving horizontal flight with a jetpack or the adequacy of the performance metrics discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not clarify the assumptions regarding the definitions of thrust and glide slope, nor do they resolve the mathematical relationships presented. The discussion remains focused on theoretical considerations without definitive conclusions.

Tabaristiio
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What is the power to weight ratio required from a wingless augmented portable flight pack (jetpack) so that it can enable flight horizontally?

Assume that the jetpack and the user both weigh 300 pounds combined.
 
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Well, if the power to weight ratio is above 1.0, it can fly horizontally. How fast horizontally depends on the ratio.

The horizontal component of thrust that is possible is given by the Pythagorean theorem, where the total thrust is the hypotenuse and the weight is one vertical side:
$$F = \sqrt{T^2-W^2}$$
where ##F## is the horizontal thrust, ##T## is the total thrust, and ##W## is the total weight.

So if the jet pack thrusted just 301 pounds, it could be tilted ever so slightly to impart a slight horizontal force to propel the wearer horizontally, but slowly.
 
I doubt humans make very good "lifting bodies" so +1 to what Anachronist said.
 
CWatters said:
I doubt humans make very good "lifting bodies" so +1 to what Anachronist said.

I guess it depends on what you mean by very good. A skydiver can reach horizontal speeds of 19 m/s while vertical speed is about 72 m/s, is that bad, good? Not good enough to land I suppose :-(

Cheers
 
Any glide slope less than 1:1 isn't even bad.
 
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CWatters said:
Any glide slope less than 1:1 isn't even bad.
That depends on the speed at which you hit the ground. :)
 

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